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  1. #1
    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    Default About Intuitive-Feeling and Prediction

    (Everyone is welcome to reply -- however I felt that this topic mostly pertains to NFs, so the Idyllic is my subsection of preference where the placement of this topic is concerned)

    Here's a question I asked an INFJ friend on MSN recently:

    "Is accurately predicting something the same thing as not being surprised when that something comes to pass?"

    To which he replied: "Yes and no. There's conscious and subconscious prediction, with the latter category including the infamous line "I knew he was going to do that."

    This view is something that I share.
    Basically, there are the following two categories:

    a. Conscious, active prediction, let's say... "prophecy":
    "This is what he's going to do."

    Leads to "being proven right" or the opposite in the case of being inaccurate.
    In conscious control of the doer, more externally expressed than internally, "explosive". Can bring about motion.

    b. Unconscious, passive prediction, "hunch".
    "I knew he was going to do that,"
    or "I'm not surprised that he did that."
    Leads to non-surprise, perceived as affirmation. Or, again, possibly the opposite.
    Not noticable by the doer (unconscious), more internally expressed than externally, "calmly builds up". Doesn't really induce motion.

    In both cases, insight into the opposing side's perceived thought processes play a large role.

    Anyway, my personal feeling is that I do the "unconscious" type of prediction more, though not exclusively so. I find that "conscious" prediction is notably shrouded in mist and as such it's not very prominent most of the time. It also seems that the two assist each other -- usage of one eventually helps the other become clearer in the mind's eye, and so the "doer" also gains confidence regarding the usage of both faculties.
    If there's one thing common to both though, it's that they are slow to manifest! :)

    I hope this post made sense. I'm truly not sure.
    I am looking forward to reading your replies and learning about your perspectives.
    Not really.

  2. #2
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    I'm really not sure if I understand or buy it but, for the sake of conversation I will humor you. I would say that either way I keep both predictions to myself. I rarely let people in on my hunches/prophecies because there isn't anything to back them up, which is what a lot of people want. I probably experience the unconscious more because I rarely make a conscious effort to try and predict. Normally they just come to my mind spontaneously during contemplation and then sooner or later it is fulfilled.
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  3. #3
    Large Member Ender's Avatar
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    I came up with a wild theory on how survival instincts and intuition come into play, how they're manifested and it ties a bit of Darwinism into the whole thing.

    I'm not saying any of it's right, as it was just something I came up with, and to be honest I haven't bothered to think about it again. It could be correct in some ways or way off base, but I don't really worry about it either way and I don't live by the idea either. Just figured it kinda fit the topic so I'd share it

    The brain is split into two main parts, instinct and memory. The instincts are pre-coded so to speak when your born, but the memory section is blank, much for the same reason you can't remember everything you have ever seen heard felt etc in that there is only a limited amount of info that could be processed.

    The brain basically links instincts to memories. As they're encoded new situations lead to new interconnects between hardwired instincts as too what could happen at any given moment when you see a situation. Your brain searches it's instinct register to try and figure out what could happen as a means of survival then if it finds it searches for a memory to link it to.

    If you've never experienced the situation, then there is no memory, if it has a precoded instinct in that situation the brain will trigger the danger or safe instinct. If you come across a situation that you've never seen before, then the brain unable to link it to any instinct records the memory, and hard codes an instinct based on it. When faced with the situation again.. your instinct will then kick in cuz you've done it before much like riding a bike in that sense.

    As for the issue of just how they're passed, When your born your brain is only so big.. it can only hold so much "info" so the memories are discarded, but the instincts are passed on as you grow and your brain does as well. the memory section is developed and the cycle starts again.. constantly looking for new info in which to hard code the next generations instincts.
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  4. #4
    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    wedekit: Thanks for humoring me -- and it seems we have a similar outlook. I never gave much thought to why I don't usually share my conscious predictions, but it's probably because I need to make sure before rattling my bone-box! and I usually can't do that.

    Ender: An interesting read. I'm not quite sure about the connection with survival (of course keeping in mind the context of your post), but I can see the relationship between memory-pattern recongnition and intuition/prediction. After all, there are no truly baseless predictions. Memories and emerging patterns provide the foundation. Just in case an internal or external force demands the reasoning!
    Not really.

  5. #5
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    All it takes is for one mis-prediction and people start doubting your abilities. So I usually make none. The only times I can remember making a conscious prediction is when people ask my opinion on someone they like or something like that. I'm usually dead on too.

    The unconscious ones are tricky now that I think about it. It usually comes to me as a random thought that I never really think over, and then it happens and I suddenly remember that I called it. Maybe conscious prophecies are just refined unconscious ones.
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  6. #6
    Large Member Ender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir View Post
    [B]Ender: An interesting read. I'm not quite sure about the connection with survival (of course keeping in mind the context of your post), but I can see the relationship between memory-pattern recongnition and intuition/prediction. After all, there are no truly baseless predictions. Memories and emerging patterns provide the foundation. Just in case an internal or external force demands the reasoning!
    I pretty much view most subconscious human behavior as being pretty much based off survival instincts. A lot of what we do is more or less done as a means of protecting ourselves and the survival of the species. Genetically encoding survival instincts in our future generations is just an extension of that.

    Theres those who learn to go by those instincts and theres those who earn a Darwin award.

    As I said tho I more or less just play around with theories like this. It's not something I seriously consider.
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    I don't want it, I just need it, to breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

    Never take life to seriously.. No one gets out alive in the end anyway.

  7. #7
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadir View Post
    ...
    a. Conscious, active prediction, let's say... "prophecy":
    "This is what he's going to do."


    b. Unconscious, passive prediction, "hunch".
    "I knew he was going to do that,"
    or "I'm not surprised that he did that."
    Leads to non-surprise, perceived as affirmation. Or, again, possibly the opposite. ... In both cases, insight into the opposing side's perceived thought processes play a large role.
    The latter is my most common way of expressing it. And it is because, yes, of perceiving the underlying thought processes of motivations/behaviors of all the "pieces" involved. You know the rules of the system, you know the pieces moving through the system, and so the whole thing just seems like a large picture in the mind of where things will end up, just as an avid pool player would "see" where all the balls will go and what they'd do if he performs the break a certain way and he would "see" this in one flash of an image in his head.

    I rarely am surprised by an outcome... and sometimes I get a real thrill out of being surprised (if it's not something really bad for me), if it tells me something new about the person.

    But I don't like to "prophesy" in the sense that I'm 100% sure. All I can say is that, with my current understanding of everything involved, I can see where things will go, what people will do, and what the outcome is. But since I do know my knowledge is imperfect, then I can't 100% sure say I know the outcome.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

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  8. #8
    Wait, what? Varelse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    I rarely am surprised by an outcome... and sometimes I get a real thrill out of being surprised (if it's not something really bad for me), if it tells me something new about the person.
    Part of it might also be that I'm open to possibilties...I can see things going different ways, so I don't say "this will happen x way".
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    We have no right to make amendments

  9. #9
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Well, I can also see all the paths, but judging by the person (since mine usually involve people) I can decide on their "path-of-best-fit". I am able to see all the possible variables and make my own judgment to which ones will be used by a particular person. If that makes sense...
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  10. #10
    Enigma Nadir's Avatar
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    Jennifer: You put it well... even though I can't say I am that much of an adept, yet. And welcome to the not-never-100%-sure club!

    wedekit: My turn... ;) and yes, that's how it usually "works" with me as well, though I suppose it looks more impressive in written word than reality (That's why we're here, I guess). And for your information, my INFJ friend used a similar wording as you did, to describe the same thing -- before your response, even. I quote:
    It's not so much predicting as it is choosing the correct path that someone will take, aided through the help of memories.
    And yeah, efforts to increase the INFJ population here are still underway.
    Not really.

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