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  1. #1
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
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    Default Thought Experiment: Fi World

    Picture that somehow cognitive function preference was narrowed down to genetics and hormones. Next picture a biochemical bomb that instantly kills anything with a prominent Fe expression.

    You know, maybe that's not scientifically feasible.

    Fine! Picture a scenario where evil aliens visited the earth and somehow hated Fe people and holocaust'd them out of existence.

    Ooh.. classy.

    "What would a human world composed of only Fi dominants, auxiliaries, tertiaries and inferiors look like?"

    Would we tear each other apart, or would we by the very nature of possessing one part of this pseudo-cosmic universal feeling / value function ... all get along so well to make the Carebears jealous?

    [PS:
    I love you Fe folks, this is nothing against you. I would defend you all from Xenu if I had a chance.

    -Love, Xel <3 ]

    "Neurotic, ha!"
    I let out a scornful laugh.
    "If neurotic is wanting two mutually exclusive things at one and the same time, then I'm neurotic as hell.
    I'll be flying back and forth between one mutually exclusive thing and another for the rest of my days.
    "

    — Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar.

  2. #2
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    It would always, always be a Te/Fi world....the two are intertwined and cannot be separated.

    Society would be maintained via Te patterns of control and behavior, while very close relationships would rely on the subtle sweet beauty of Fi-the language of touches, glances, subtle needs of the individual, redrawing of boundaries, negotiation of needs. Make no mistake-there is such a thing as Te bonds that hold groups together stably. Society doesnt require Fe-only Ti requires Fe.

    Ethical change on a large scale would be accomplished partially by subtle Fi nudges delivered to Te bearing individuals or by more loud Fi driven Te protests for change. The Te doms and auxs would control the form society takes and the Fi doms and auxs would serve as strong influential factors, by kicking the Te users in their Fi now and then.

    Communication with associates would be direct and blunt in the day to day, even harsh at times, but productive and driven towards a common objective. Teamwork would be measured by what you contribute in terms of results to the group, not how you say it or who you know. Each person would take credit for the work they do and take credit for the mistakes they make. Ideas would be separate from people, while values would be internalized and considered the sacred domain of the individual-like invisible boundaries that are respected-until Te mandates they must be crossed.

    Disagreements would be settled via open discussion, even escalating to hostility or by a silent withdraw by individuals. Fi is a bit passive aggresive.

    Helping those in need would still happen-but it would be of a more immediate nature, to those in the greatest need, and be promptly followed by a lesson of how to help themselves. If they refuse to heed the lesson, then the aid rapidly falls off. A bit of Hunger, combined with boundaries teaches responsibility and the value of hard work.

    Those in great need-the mentally ill, the very old, the very sick, the innocent-would be given care as they need it, as they cant be expected to care for themselves. It would not matter if they were part of a family or social group or not. Those in intermediate need would be expected to learn to cope and resolve problems and identify solutions themselves.

  3. #3
    Filthy Apes! Kalach's Avatar
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    Maybe the aliens really loved Fe types and took them with them. They just made that really big explosion when they left so everyone else wouldn't feel bad about being left behind.

    So then everyone else sits around asking if they did that.

    "I don't CARE IF I DID THAT!" they yell. "But... did I do it? That explosion--was it me? O Gawd, it was, wasn't it? I'm... sorry? I DIDN'T MEAN IT! IT WASN'T MY FAULT! YOU'VE GOT TO BELIEVE ME!!"


    But later....
    Bellison uncorked a flood of horrible profanity, which, translated, meant, "This is extremely unusual."

    Boy meets Grr

  4. #4
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
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    Orobas you hit exactly where I wanted you guys to expand.
    See, to me, what you've described as in taking care of others, sounds like a utopia.

    When I put myself in that scenario, as if I was born in Fi world, I realize that predicting other's emotional state would be far, far easier. I assume that there are behaviors you inevitably adopt in life to deal with our counterpart Fe, but if no one in this world was even forced to do all that adapting, then it follows communication would be far less obstructed.

    Of course you would still have the good old S vs N. But given that we can all "access" that common space... could we sort of bridge that?

    Furthermore, I think those with inferior Fi like ENTJs would probably be off-balance at some point.
    Same thing if there's too much Te all over the place, the INFPs are bound to feel overwhelmed.

    "Neurotic, ha!"
    I let out a scornful laugh.
    "If neurotic is wanting two mutually exclusive things at one and the same time, then I'm neurotic as hell.
    I'll be flying back and forth between one mutually exclusive thing and another for the rest of my days.
    "

    — Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar.

  5. #5
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    xello this is my dream world as well....

    The S vs N is still an issue-just because of what we can see and what we cant see.. Heck even the INTJs think the ENFPs are weird and so on with Ne vs Ni. But the way we communicate, the way we act to change things around us, our motives, the way we influence others would all be the same, the way we show and express affection and agression would translate more cleanly.

    In the real world, I suspect Fi users born to Fe parents fare better-as from birth they are having to learn to deal with Fe. My family is all Fi (my INFJ dada passed away when young), thus I avoided Fe users and thought many negative things about them when forced to interact-as I didnt understand they just speak a different language.

    As for Te doms and Fi doms...I'd guess they almost work in different realms-Fi highly individual while Te is highly group oriented. I always wondered how they work in relationships, but I recall a few INFPs being married the Te doms and being happy...

  6. #6
    Supreme High Commander Andy's Avatar
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    Sounds like a bad place to be an orphan. The worldly, organised TJs have "more important things on their minds than a bunch of urchins" and the FPs who care are a disorganised rable.

    FP: There are children going hungry on the cold streets, we have to do something about it!
    TJ: Are there no work houses? Round them all up and put them in an institute where their labours can pay for the cost of keeping them.
    Don't make whine out of sour grapes.

  7. #7
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    If only Fi implies only Te we would also have a world without Ti. Apparently nobody sees a problem with that. No INTPs, no ISTPs, etc. ... never mind the coherence as long as it feels good - a question of time until the first bridges would collapse!

    Next we would have to differenciate between a world where everybody is Fi dom or aux ... meaning low T all around...and everybody is driven by personal ethics (i.e. a world of Jeanne D´Arcs), which could possibly lead to tremendous conflict when those personal ethics collide, and a world where there simply is no Fe or Ti, but which includes people with tertiary or inferior Fi. This could get just as nasty if it means a huge crowd of Tes with a nagging underdeveloped Fi whispering in their ear (Light from Death note is a frequently used example on this forum).

    Don´t get me wrong, a world with only Ti/Fe would be just as desastrous: All analysis and no action, sheepish group behavior, no moral lighthouses and social reformers, ... it´s a ying and yang thing!
    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

  8. #8
    Senior Member Xellotath's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    xello this is my dream world as well....

    As for Te doms and Fi doms...I'd guess they almost work in different realms-Fi highly individual while Te is highly group oriented. I always wondered how they work in relationships, but I recall a few INFPs being married the Te doms and being happy...
    It's funny, my situation is the polar opposite. My family were all Fe people, can't say after all we've been through that I have a clear advantage - I still don't understand them.

    -- Allow me to phrase my idea in a would-be inflammatory fashion --

    Are we not saying that a large obstacle for utopia are Fe users?


    As crazy as it may sound in written form, I hypothesize that this ideal Fi world is at the heart of every ENFP "mission". You know, the source of our idealism. What makes us rebel and have a certain disregard for authority. At the end of the day, Fi world is kind of what we want.

    So in an attempt to disprove my own theory, I figured "Xel, you're an idiot of course everyone in the world wants their own functions validated, and of course, what greater validation than having the whole world reflecting you?"

    Ah-hah! This is where your wrong - I said to myself, like a schizophrenic skipping her medication.
    Fe is kind of pragmatic, as long as you don't disrupt things and everyone gets along, its all good - the rest are conceptual extensions but they're not -felt-. Its not a matter of felt-meaning like us.

    If they dont extrapolate to the rest of the world intellectually, Fe'rs couldnt care for the state of the worldl, or its symbols, or its messages or its inherent goodness or wrongness.

    Therefore, I conclude that is strictly an Fi phenomenon (perhaps only ENFPs. Or in the worst case scenario, only me -sadface- )

    Quote Originally Posted by Andy View Post
    Sounds like a bad place to be an orphan. The worldly, organised TJs have "more important things on their minds than a bunch of urchins" and the FPs who care are a disorganised rable.

    FP: There are children going hungry on the cold streets, we have to do something about it!
    TJ: Are there no work houses? Round them all up and put them in an institute where their labours can pay for the cost of keeping them.
    HEY! Psh. Meanie. But in a way, your hypothetical TJ arrived at the same conclusion Orobas arrived at. She said something along the lines of, people should be helped and then co-erced into taking care of themselves.

    -sniff- The oceans between us are illusory!!! <3 <3

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Herring View Post
    If only Fi implies only Te we would also have a world without Ti. Apparently nobody sees a problem with that. No INTPs, no ISTPs, etc. ... never mind the coherence as long as it feels good - a question of time until the first bridges would collapse!
    Next we would have to differenciate between a world where everybody is Fi dom or aux ... meaning low T all around...and everybody is driven by personal ethics (i.e. a world of Jeanne D´Arcs), which could possibly lead to tremendous conflict when those personal ethics collide, and a world where there simply is no Fe or Ti, but which includes people with tertiary or inferior Fi. This could get just as nasty if it means a huge crowd of Tes with a nagging underdeveloped Fi whispering in their ear (Light from Death note is a frequently used example on this forum).
    Don´t get me wrong, a world with only Ti/Fe would be just as desastrous: All analysis and no action, sheepish group behavior, no moral lighthouses and social reformers, ... it´s a ying and yang thing!
    Nonsense! We would have bridges. Problem is INTJs would force you to solve partial differential equations to get across instead of paying the toll. You know, trying to filter the rest of us with low IQs.

    Also, we Fi folk have our Sensors too ;-; Dont forget them, they're kinda nice - and far more practical.

    Fe world does sound absolutely terrifying, though. My bias, though.

    "Neurotic, ha!"
    I let out a scornful laugh.
    "If neurotic is wanting two mutually exclusive things at one and the same time, then I'm neurotic as hell.
    I'll be flying back and forth between one mutually exclusive thing and another for the rest of my days.
    "

    — Sylvia Plath, The Bell Jar.

  9. #9
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Andy, Fi would help the weakest first-thus the children would be cared for somehow... i would almost argue institutionalized "care" such as an orphanage is Fe-ish in nature. I could almost see them being absorbed into families....

    The reason this question-the splitting of society into two halves- interests me so much is that I have seen it work on a small group project at my company.

    Our manufacturing area is filled with Te auxs and has a very no-no-nonsense Te feel.

    One small group of our company is Led by an ISFJ and he leads by excluding people who speak directly up at meetings or against ideas in his group. As a result he has lost most of his Te doms/auxs but maintains several NTPs and other assorted feelers. Anything his group produces is very badly flawed and a source of constant infighting as he tries to get it manufactured-as it has to get into the hands of Te users....

    Another RnD group was started by a demoted ESFP. His team was an INTJ, two ENFPs, and an ISTJ. These guys are rock stars at getting products across into manufacturing and accomplishing the impossible. The team is noted to be extremely open, direct, face problems head on and be very decisive. They are also dealing with mostly Te's on the receiving end. Their development times are at least a third of the development times of the first group-to the point management finally promoted the ESFP to VP and took all of the ISFJs people away.

    It is a limited example but it highlights how innate communication diffs can influence group behavior. In this instance, as the group begins to be less diverse (all Te/Fi) group cohesion becomes much better and production increases.

    It sounds like I am bashing Fe/Ti. That isnt the intent at all.....It has to work in the opposite way as well--the closer a group gets to (Fe/Ti) uniformity, the less conflict is seen and the smoother group dynamics must be-thus the higher rates of achieving whatever the group goal is??? (I realize I said "dream world" earlier but that's cause I am a whiny Fi user and alas, Fe can be a bit rough on us as we grow up so it is fun to imagine a world where we would be accepted for exactly what we are...)

    As to red herrings point...I would say with no Fe users to understand Fe would not be needed. In the converse Fe world, I'd say no Fi would be needed as there would be no Fi users to understand.

    But can Te suffice without Ti? I do now a couple of Te engineers who could build bridges....so I dunno....

  10. #10
    Superwoman Red Herring's Avatar
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    A case for Fe:

    The good life is one inspired by love and guided by knowledge. Neither love without knowledge, nor knowledge without love can produce a good life. - Bertrand Russell
    A herring's blog
    Johari / Nohari

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