[MBTI General] True introversion or shy extroversion

[Lily flower]

Do true introverts actually desire friends?

One of the worst feelings to me is being lonely. Even though I have a tendency to be very reserved and shy, I still really can't stand being alone. I must have interactions with other people. So is that introversion, or just some sort of wounded extroversion, that produced a shy or reserved personality?

 

[citizen cane]

i dont know, but i usually feel the exact same way. and then when i AM around someone, it's equally terrible because i cant find anything to say.

 

[Arclight]

Do true introverts actually desire friends?

One of the worst feelings to me is being lonely. Even though I have a tendency to be very reserved and shy, I still really can't stand being alone. I must have interactions with other people. So is that introversion, or just some sort of wounded extroversion, that produced a shy or reserved personality?

I just mentioned something about this very topic in one of your other threads.
Although your other thread contradicts this one by saying you find interaction unpleasant.

There is a difference between social introversion and cognitive introversion.

 

[gromit]

Of course they do! Friends are what make life fun/bearable.

 

[citizen cane]

is a difference between social introversion and cognitive introversion.

i'm intrigued...

 

[Savage Idealist]

I feel the same way the op does, a desire to interact, but a reluctance to for other reasons. I personally don't think freinds has too much to do with it, rather its more were you draw your energy from; whether it be in solitude or from the outer world. Although maybe I shouldn't be offering advice, since I'm unsure of my own extroversion.

Originally posted by Arclight
There is a difference between social introversion and cognitive introversion.

Oh yes, please elaborate on this assertion, I find it very intriguing.

 

[William K]

I get tired/exhausted if I'm in a loud party for too long and will either leave or space out. That doesn't mean I hate people and can't stand parties. It might look like anti-social behaviour from the outside but if I'm with the right crowd, I can utterly talk the night away.

 

[Such Irony]

Do true introverts actually desire friends?

One of the worst feelings to me is being lonely. Even though I have a tendency to be very reserved and shy, I still really can't stand being alone. I must have interactions with other people. So is that introversion, or just some sort of wounded extroversion, that produced a shy or reserved personality?

Everyone needs some level of human contact and friendship. I think the difference is that introverts prefer to recharge themselves by being alone and extraverts prefer to do so by interacting with others. Introverts most likely tolerate being alone moreso than extraverts. When you say you can't stand being alone, do you mean you can't stand being alone *at all* or just that every now and then you can't stand it? If its the former, you're probably a shy extravert.

 

[Aquarelle]

Everyone needs friends and human interaction, and everyone needs time to themselves, but I would say that introverts need a lot more time to themselves than extroverts. I need tons of alone time and I relish my alone time. Also, being alone and being lonely are two different things, I think. Being lonely implies, to me at least, is when I don't feel like there is anyone I can call or go see or talk to when I want to. That's an unpleasant feeling for anyone. Being alone and being perfectly content is not loneliness. But since you say you hate being alone, yeah, you might be a shy extrovert. Unfortunate combination, but that doesn't mean there's something wrong with you.

 

[Totenkindly]

Do true introverts actually desire friends? One of the worst feelings to me is being lonely. Even though I have a tendency to be very reserved and shy, I still really can't stand being alone. I must have interactions with other people. So is that introversion, or just some sort of wounded extroversion, that produced a shy or reserved personality?

It sounds like you are trying to figure out how to define yourself, and then figure out who you are supposed to be from that definition. (So if you decide you are a "true introvert" and a "true introvert" doesn't need friends, you have a template for yourself to follow.) I intuit, though, that examining your feelings might be a better approach.

I really do understand what you are talking about. When I was very young, I was so shy I'd hide behind furniture when guests came. The first year my parents tried to take me to summer camp, the fear of having to interact with strangers overwhelmed me, and after an hour of crying in the registration line, I was brought home. (The next year, I felt similarly but was older, so I just "toughed it out" and after two days, I felt comfortable enough to manage for the rest of the week. I was glad I did, overall; but it was still draining in some ways despite any enjoyment.) I remember in high school I would start to drive to planned social events, then have so much anxiety that I would end up crying and end up just going somewhere else alone. I even had some Avoidant style episodes when I was really depressed in my late 20's and mid 30's, where I would avoid walking down the same halls/rows in the work building if I heard someone coming.

What I figured out is that I really prefer a script. I am someone who will rehearse a phone call in her head to even the most mundane person (e.g., a utilities bill representative) before dialing. Unless I am familiar with people, it can be very difficult for me to engage because I feel that I don't know their expectations and the "rules" of the situation, and I might make a terrible gaff and either offend someone, or make myself look stupid/mean, or just botch the whole thing.

I also have become aware that being around too many people drains my energy quickly. Even spending time with friends eventually drains my batteries. I need private time to regather my energy.

But I also am aware that I genuinely do like people of all sorts, even if I don't know how to interact with them.

I overcome this by trying to reframe how I viewed things:
- I am not a stupid, offensive person.
- I am actually likeable.
- Normal people won't think I am stupid or offensive or unlikeable if I make a gaff when talking to them or don't say everything as well as I could, they will be reasonable and I have to trust them.
- If someone is unreasonable and judges me, I have the option to be fair to myself and frame it back as "their issue" if I review it and decide an average person would have responded differently.
- There might be some people who don't like me and that is okay -- it's not my fault, necessarily, and doesn't mean I'm a bad person.

etc.

When I managed to reframe a lot of my perspective like this, I found interactions with others a lot easier and less anxiety-prone, because I was taking SO much pressure off my own shoulders and trying to accord myself the same reasonable fairness I wanted to bequeath to everyone else in the world. For some reason, I guess I was just judging myself so much more harshly and expecting so much more of myself.

The other issue with people is that I feel afraid that they will encroach on me and not respect my boundaries, but I have some fear in just telling them what my boundaries are because I don't want to needlessly offend them. Again, it was something I had to teach myself: That every person has healthy boundaries, and that I'm "allowed" to mark off a space that I don't want people to cross over without my permission, and that a reasonable person will respect that and have their own boundaries and make it clear to me what they are so that I won't encroach on them accidentally or will forgive me if I accidentally step into their space. IOW, it no longer is a matter of me being perfect, but both people being reasonable.

I just mentioned something about this very topic in one of your other threads.
Although your other thread contradicts this one by saying you find interaction unpleasant.

You're the second post I've seen who characterized her comment that way, but I think she was using "unpleasant" in a different sense... not as in people are unpleasant but that the interaction naturally causes anxiety that is unpleasant to experience regardless of the people involved.

 

[IZthe411]

I'm an introvert that loves interacting with others.
It's when I need to 'recharge' that I don't want to be bothered.

 

[Arclight]

i'm intrigued...

Oh yes, please elaborate on this assertion, I find it very intriguing.

Social introversion

"Introversion is not the same as shyness or the social outcast. Introverts choose solitary over social activities by preference, whereas shy people (who may be extroverts at heart) avoid social encounters out of fear and whereas the social outcast faces solitude, but not by choice."

~All About Shyness, Meredith Whitten, Psych Central, 21 Aug 2001; Accessed 2007-08-02

Hans Eysenck described extroversion-introversion as the degree to which a person is outgoing and interactive with other people.

~Eysenck, H. J. (1967). The biological basis of personality.

Cognitive Introversion

According to Carl Jung, introversion and extroversion refer to the direction of psychic energy. If a person’s psychic energy usually flows outwards then he or she is an extrovert, while if the energy usually flows inwards, the person is an introvert.

"Extroversion and Introversion are one of the preferences used in the Jungian Type Inventory. The naming is unfortunately a bit archaic as extroversion is not about being loud and introversion is not about being shy. It is about where people get their energy and motivation from: other people or within themselves."

Extraversion

"The energy of extroverts is outward, towards people and things. They need a lot of stimulation and often express emotions. They get their motivation from other people."

Introversion

"The energy of introverts is inward toward concepts and ideas. They need little external stimulation"

Source.. http://changingminds.org/explanations/preferences/extravert_introvert.htm

 

[mochajava]

Jennifer: But I also am aware that I genuinely do like people of all sorts, even if I don't know how to interact with them.

I overcome this by trying to reframe how I viewed things:
- I am not a stupid, offensive person.
- I am actually likeable.
- Normal people won't think I am stupid or offensive or unlikeable if I make a gaff when talking to them or don't say everything as well as I could, they will be reasonable and I have to trust them.
- If someone is unreasonable and judges me, I have the option to be fair to myself and frame it back as "their issue" if I review it and decide an average person would have responded differently.
- There might be some people who don't like me and that is okay -- it's not my fault, necessarily, and doesn't mean I'm a bad person.

Well-said - I think I will adapt some of these and ruminate on them a bit. And you worked through a LOT wrt to being able to socialize in a way that you found comfortable.

 

[mochajava]

Arclight, do you feel like you are both? I noticed your "e" is small. I think I operate in both ways, but perhaps lean heavily towards the introversion.

 

[Elfboy]

Social introversion

"Introversion is not the same as shyness or the social outcast. Introverts choose solitary over social activities by preference, whereas shy people (who may be extroverts at heart) avoid social encounters out of fear and whereas the social outcast faces solitude, but not by choice."

~All About Shyness, Meredith Whitten, Psych Central, 21 Aug 2001; Accessed 2007-08-02

Hans Eysenck described extroversion-introversion as the degree to which a person is outgoing and interactive with other people.

~Eysenck, H. J. (1967). The biological basis of personality.

Cognitive Introversion

According to Carl Jung, introversion and extroversion refer to the direction of psychic energy. If a person’s psychic energy usually flows outwards then he or she is an extrovert, while if the energy usually flows inwards, the person is an introvert.

"Extroversion and Introversion are one of the preferences used in the Jungian Type Inventory. The naming is unfortunately a bit archaic as extroversion is not about being loud and introversion is not about being shy. It is about where people get their energy and motivation from: other people or within themselves."

Extraversion

"The energy of extroverts is outward, towards people and things. They need a lot of stimulation and often express emotions. They get their motivation from other people."

Introversion

"The energy of introverts is inward toward concepts and ideas. They need little external stimulation"

Source.. http://changingminds.org/explanations/preferences/extravert_introvert.htm

interesting. from your description, it would sound like big 5 measures social extraversion, while mbti measures cognitive introversion (I actually score like 85 on big 5 extraversion, but when I take the mbti, I come out as introverted)

 

[Arclight]

Arclight, do you feel like you are both? I noticed your "e" is small. I think I operate in both ways, but perhaps lean heavily towards the introversion.

I am very socially withdrawn (which is why I am on here a lot) But I am on here a lot because I like people.
I have never scored an E ever in my life on any test except the test in "Please Understand Me"

There is definitely a fine line between both my social and cognitive introversion and extroversion.

I would say socially I lean towards extroversion and cognitively I lean towards Introversion. But I might have that backwards..
It's really close

I am also pretty close on the J/P side of things which controls the direction of the functions.. so it kind of makes sense.

 

[Arclight]

Arclight, do you feel like you are both? I noticed your "e" is small. I think I operate in both ways, but perhaps lean heavily towards the introversion.

Here is the whole page on cognitive Introversion and Extroversion .. When reading this I relate to both on many levels and neither entirely.

Extroversion

The energy of extroverts is outward, towards people and things. They need a lot of stimulation and often express emotions. They get their motivation from other people.

They often want to change the world (rather than think about it). Extroverts like variety, action and achievement. They do well at school but may find University more difficult.

Their attitude is often relaxed and confident. They are understandable and accessible. They tend to act first and think later.

At work, they seek variety and action and like working with other people. They prefer work that has breadth rather than depth.

Introverts may see them as being shallow and pushy.

Introversion

The energy of introverts is inward toward concepts and ideas. They need little external stimulation - and in fact they can easily be over-stimulated. it is possible that they focus more on their inner worlds because they suffer from sensory overload if they spend too much time outside and focusing on other people. They thus bottle up their own emotions, which can explode if pushed too far.

Rather than trying to change the world, they just want to understand it. They think deeply about things and often do better at University than they did at school.

Their attitude is reserved and questioning and they can seem subtle and impenetrable. They tend to think before they act.
At work they like to work alone and often seek quiet for concentration. They tend to prefer work that has depth rather than breadth.

Extroverts may see them as egocentric and passive.

There is a view that introverts may act as they do because they are more easily overwhelmed by external stimuli, as opposed to extroverts who have a higher basic stimulation threshold and need the more visceral external stimulation to avoid boredom.
So what?

With extroverts:

* Show energy and enthusiasm.
* Respond quickly without long pauses to think.
* Allow talking out loud without definite conclusions.
* Communicate openly - do not censure.
* Focus on the external world, the people and the things.
* Allow time for bouncing around ideas.
* Take words at face value.
* Do not assume commitment or decisions made.

With introverts:

* Include introduction time to get to know you and trust you.
* Encourage responses with questions as, “What do you think?”
* Use polling techniques for input and decision making.
* Allow time for thinking before responding and decision-making.
* Make use of written responses where practical.
* Concentrate on one-on-one activities.
* Do not assume lack of interest.

I relate to the stuff in red.. some of it is very contradictory

 

[Randomnity]

I think almost all people need friends, even if it's just one or two. I'd be tempted to speculate that people with no friends are cognitively different from the rest of humanity. It's a very human thing to be connected.

If you're lonely and shy, it doesn't mean you're an introvert or an extrovert. Introverts can be shy too, and are probably even more likely to be shy than extroverts. It's more helpful to think about how you might interact if you weren't shy. If someone you know very well comes over unexpectedly and stays for a few hours, you probably aren't shy but are you drained? That kind of thing.

 

[Queen Kat]

The thing that distinguishes introverts from extraverts is the amount of stimulation they need to function well. Introverts need silence and serenity, extraverts need noise and excitement. Social behaviour has little to do with it. Lots of introverts see friendships as a basic life need, but I, a pretty unsocial extravert, think maintaining friendships is unnecessary luxury. So if you like quite and peace, your a true introvert. Shyness has by the way also a lot to do with neuroticism, not just introversion. And what about social pressure?

 

[rav3n]

Hopefully this won't be offensive to anyone but this introversion/extroversion concept nags me.

If by defining introversion/extroversion by charging with or without other people, we have to question why the difference of recharging. Do introverts (and I still might be one myself since some people drain me badly and others charge) lean towards a tendency to want to control the interaction, that in anticipating how the interaction would go, feel drained when it doesn't go the expected way so more energy must be put into the interaction to reroute it to anticipated results?