[Fe] Fe and not having a strong sense of self-identity.

[cascadeco]

Heh...I can stand only about 15 minutes of nature and then I get bored/depressed (since boredom>relaxation>sadness if you're not careful). I'm hoping for more suggestions from other people.

Well..and there you go!! If you find nature boring, then it's not going to be your route to becoming centered/peaceful. I know that for me too, boredom is the first step in a negative mental spiral towards depression and overanalysis/self-critique. However -> relaxation doesn't go to sadness for me. Does it for you, really? For me, being relaxed, without boredom, is one thing. The presence of boredom though will remove any potential for true relaxation.

What suggestions are you looking for? Things that would ground/center you? That will vary from one person to the next - I mean it could be just listening to music with no other distractions, it could be yoga or running or walking, it could be something artistic, or just sipping coffee/tea... I dunno.

One other thought on what nature does for me - the aspect of centering basically equates to my getting out of my head. In mbti terms, it's probably my jumping to Se. In any event, I open my eyes to the world around me, and the moment, and the moment is beautiful. My 'presence' no longer being in my brain and instead looking through my eyes around me is the best feeling ever. It's like a temporary reprieve.

I find it ironic that INFJs are so cautious about not being unwanted, yet we have a hard time telling others that they are unwanted. I guess that's another self-abandoning aspect. When I was younger, I felt like all the pressure to make an interaction good was on me. Whatever I say had to be carefully worded, but whatever they said was totally permissible.

Uggh, I still do this.

 

[violaine]

Oh boy, this thread is just what I've been thinking about lately. I feel a growth spurt coming on. *Placeholder for later thoughts.*

 

[Unkindloving]

Concept I like to restate when it comes to ENFJ identity:
"'We have a stable core that is all individual, but this moldable outer shell used for interacting with different people/situations. So as we're sifting through ourselves in our own time, we're remolding the outer shell. Breaking off pieces off it, examining, and placing some of those pieces into our stable core. like puzzle pieces. We're constantly searching for the ones that fit us from external scenarios' It's like we're building a more efficient self, but after sorting through all of the fickle parts of fickle things.. and somehow it works"

I'd venture to say that the difficulty with an introverted Fe user is that they aren't as inclined to acquire what their Fe may need for better self-identification due to said introversion.
Young and immature Fe can require that emphasis on people so it can grow into a mature Fe, so it may have to take a bit of a beating for the boundaries to be set and understood. I've learned where walls are necessary and where I stand separate from others due to losing myself in the wake of others at times. Then again, I don't feel that I've done this too frequently even in the past. It usually only presented itself in relationships, where you do want to try to appease your partner, but can forget your own ground in the process. There's always been this inherent sense of stability and self when I interact with others, although I will be very compromising if I find myself indifferent.

In specific 'what do we do?' scenarios, I work with different questions.
"What are the options?" Once we define our options- "Which are you opposed to?" I state what I am opposed to after that and we see if there is an agreement or compromise to be made.
The thing to consider is if someone is setting their own desires to the side, or if they are generally laid back and open with preferences. I am a "Yes" person for the mostpart. It's rare that I have a deep enough "do not want" feeling, which can become surpising when that feeling does arise. Certain things like.. I love a variety of activities, but almost completely refuse to go ice skating. I'm fine with going out to eat at most places, but if I will instantly decline an asian restaurant if I'm not in the mood. Etc. These aren't random decisions, but can seem like it if someone always approaches me with what I'll agree to.

Also, I've found there to be a sifting process. When self-reflecting, it's unlike an Fi user in the sense that I almost require self-reflecting to another person. If I am explaining myself to someone, or a pseudo-social atmosphere like a blog, then I discover more connections and bounce more concepts back and forth. Without others to discuss with or observe, I recoil and recount the same information over and over. If related, there would be no doubt that underdeveloped Fe would want to consume others and accomodate to do so, rather than recognize how they must also reflect at the same time to make progress.

 

[Z Buck McFate]

Any insights on this, anyone? I suffer from this as well - what the heck are my needs? How AM I doing? I find that meditation or just consciously trying to be still and look inward helps. Actively try to engage your intuition. It's always busy looking at other people, just consciously making the effort to turn it on yourself, to turn it inward can help.

I know that, for myself, a large part of the problem is that I’m wary of feeling a need that I don’t see other people having. I think part of me instantly assumes that if I’m the only one feeling a specific need (at work, in relationships, friendships, whatever) then it’s probably unreasonable or selfish and I need to figure out how not to need it- rather than accept it as a valid need that I have a right to impose on other people. <- That’s my knee jerk reaction. Probably Fe related, but I don’t know how common it is.

As a matter of necessity, I’ve gotten better at spotting when I’m doing it. Somewehat. What helps me the most, for some reason, is to see other people with the same tendency doing the same thing- and wanting to jump in and give the person a talkin’ to about how they aren’t being fair to themselves (that’s often how I figure out that I’m not being fair to myself, I’ll see myself if what they’re doing). It’s hardest when I’m in a group of people with very dissimilar needs- when I can’t recognize myself in any one them- because then I don’t begin to understand what my needs are or if I even have any.

Z Buck mentioned the dissonance created when someone we love has a very different perception of us or does not see something we value highly as being of any worth. It makes me question the core of my identity and how I present myself to the world. Even worse, if I determine that the person's perceptions or statements are invalid with the help of many other people's added perceptions, it calls into question my sense of judgment in picking my inner circle people. I am not truly close to many people and it takes awhile for them to get through all the different stages of friendship into the very centre. Therefore, when someone acts out of character or says something inaccurate or cruel that affects me at the core of who I am, I also have to process where I missed seeing that and why I would have so blindly let them become such a big part of my world.

[…..] He truly had been my best friend, and at his best was a great person: generous, thoughtful, capable, knowledgeable, helpful, good company, creative and fun, popular, good at teaching new things. I couldn't believe I had overlooked the other stuff smaller indicators though and it called into question everything I had believed about him, our relationship, or myself.

It’s weird, but yeah, it really does throw me into an existential meltdown when I feel like I’ve achieved almost 100% same-pageness with someone and they do or say something hurtful that I didn’t expect see coming- because usually I’m so good at being able to estimate what others are capable of. At the risk of sounding melodramatic, it’s like the fabric of reality rips apart at the seams: it makes me question everything I *think* I know about the people in my life. If someone close starts lying or twisting the truth at my expense, simply thinking “so long, jerkface!” isn’t going to cut it; it gets way into my head and messes with a lot of things. It’s not like I was 100% convinced that the couple of people with whom this has happened (with me) were going to be close to me forever- but I did trust them to still care about my feelings and be respectful if we ever drifted apart.

While I’ve read here and there this is relatively common for INFJs, I really don’t know Fe related this is. There’s definitely a losing-sense-of-self aspect to it.

I HATE it when someone is thinking bad thoughts about me, but they won't tell me what they are. If they could tell me about them, then I could help them understand that I just have different paradigms and standards than they do, and so they'd be less likely to be thinking those bad thoughts about me. I HATE it when someone thinks they shouldn't tell me what they think of me because it would hurt me. Or because you care about your own immediate mood more than both our sanities ("I don't want to talk about it because I'll get crabby"). It hurts me MUCH more to know that you are thinking false things about me that could be easily cleared up if we just TALKED about them.

It just makes me wary. Anyone who knows me well- knows that they can say pretty much anything to me without me flying off the handle. My nostrils flare a bit when I get super-nonplussed, that’s as crazy as it gets. I consider whatever criticism I get, and- as long as the person is coming from a constructive place- am grateful for their honesty. If someone doesn’t value this about me, then I probably don’t have enough in common with them to be close friends anyway. So the only reason someone would have to withhold opinions from me, as far as I can tell, is that they want something from me (if only just my company)- but don’t think they’ll get it if I know what they’re really thinking about me. Either that, or they just aren’t comfortable with that much honesty- but then that’d put them in the category of not having enough in common with me.

The bottom line is that it’s usually pretty clear when someone doesn’t have much respect for my judgment. Anyone who isn’t willing to be upfront about it gets held at arm’s length. Occasionally someone flies in under the radar and I begin to trust they’ll be forthcoming when they’ve got a problem- and it’s really disorienting when their hidden disrespect starts seeping through.

Again- not sure how Fe is applicable here- but it does seem to revolve around needing harmony in the environment in order for my mind to function well.

One other thought on what nature does for me - the aspect of centering basically equates to my getting out of my head. In mbti terms, it's probably my jumping to Se. In any event, I open my eyes to the world around me, and the moment, and the moment is beautiful. My 'presence' no longer being in my brain and instead looking through my eyes around me is the best feeling ever. It's like a temporary reprieve.

I was gonna say, I think the outdoors thing is Se related. Working on some project with my hands generally makes me feel calmed and grounded- as does yoga. It doesn’t make me feel connected to other people, necessarily, but it gives me a general feeling of connectedness to my environment. The only time just physically being in the presence of nature has had this calming effect on me is driving through the hills of Kentucky, Tennessee or South Carolina (they’re AMAZING). Sometimes an ocean beach will do this for me, but it really depends on how developed the area is.

I guess the best way of phrasing it is that it gives me a big fat "this too shall pass" feeling, and my own problems just don't look anywhere as big when I can feel connected to my environment.

 

[Fidelia]

I'm finding it interesting that there's a common theme of us questioning other people's words/behaviour less than our own. I think we feel a heavy weight of responsibility to do the majority of the adjusting. While to some extent this is a healthy outlook, when taken to an extreme it can interfere with retaining perspective, setting boundaries for others and can sap our resources to an unreasonable extent.

 

[Tiltyred]

Random thoughts:
I've had these experiences of adjusting myself so the parts that show are the ones I think most likely to be harmonious or appreciated. I think of it as attuning myself to the other person. I do it because I really like it. I like to be attuned and I feel I'm gifted at attuning. That is very much a defining characteristic of mine, that I like harmony and to get along without friction. I am also always interested to see what my instrument (my self) feels like, tuned to different people, so it's fun for me, too.

I also don't really care what the activity is. If I like a person, I'm about the person, and what we're doing is incidental. Even if I think I won't like something, if the other person really likes it a lot, I am totally up for them to show me how to like it, so I'll say I don't imagine myself liking that, but why don't you show me how, and that seems to work.

Nature is really important to my well-being, too. I need trees and animals or I get depressed. It's good for me to have a pet. I don't actually get to spend that much time with trees, but I live where I can see them, and drive a route that they are on either side every day. A beach works great, too.

As I've gotten older I've realized that sometimes people are just wrong. Often, in fact. Including me. So it's not quite so devastating if someone fails to see who I am inside and puts a label on me that I don't like or relate to. They're just wrong, and it's ok. If somebody lies to me and I'm fooled, well ... they're good liars. They're fooling other people, too. Same for if they treat me badly and I let them do it a time or two -- it's usually because I can't believe what I'm seeing in the first place, so I need to see it again before I'm convinced. But if someone treats me badly, that's not a reason for me to feel bad about myself. They're the ones who should be ashamed.

I have come to cut completely through the bullshit and state simple sentences, for example, "I don't want to," said smiling and sweet, but just like that. The first few times I did it, I was scared to death, but having come to the conclusion that I do most of the adjusting and it's unnecessary since everyone else seems to do as they please and let the chips fall where they may, I decided to experiment with that, and it works. When I say "I don't want to," the other person will often laugh, find it amusing, ask me what else I'd like to do or offer another suggestion. I don't feel any huge need to explain anymore, either. This is a challenge for the other person and sometimes they like that. "I don't want to." "Why?" "I just don't. Let's do x instead." Forcing myself to come up out of my head and speak words meant the words were simple and direct and I just threw them out there in a what the hell, let's see if this works. It does. When I get more comfortable with the person, sometimes I'll explain myself if they want me to, but sometimes I don't.

Some of this stuff is about being female, too, I'm convinced.

 

[Tallulah]

Can definitely relate to a lot of stuff in this thread. I'm definitely a compartmentalizer when it comes to interacting with people, and I tend to do a lot of the flexing. However, I will speak up when it comes to making decisions--I feel like I'm willing to compromise a lot, but I'm not willing to play the, "I don't know, what do YOU want to do" game when I'm starving. Have an opinion, or I'll decide. I also hate it when I feel like I'm the only one doing the flexing. It's like an unspoken code--I accommodate you, and you accommodate me. Also really relate to the need to be alone in nature, to see trees and to be around animals to recharge. Living in New York City was very difficult for me because I didn't have any of those things.

 

[mochajava]

Tiltyred: Some of this stuff is about being female, too, I'm convinced.

Are you saying that being incredibly overaccommodating is more likely to be found in females (perhaps as a result of socialization)?

 

[Tiltyred]

Are you saying that being incredibly overaccommodating is more likely to be found in females (perhaps as a result of socialization)?

Yes.

 

[Salomé]

^Hmm. I don't have that problem.

Tbh, OP reads like codependency issues more than "Fe".

Among a Fe-user and non-Fe-user, this can cause the non-Fe-user to always get their needs met, while the Fe-user never gets their needs met.

That hasn't been my experience. However, I'm no stranger to having Fe-user claims reframed as acts of selflessness because they are incapable of asserting their own needs in a healthy way. That's something to watch out for and avoid.

 

[Tiltyred]

Or don't see the need to at least indicate they're making a sacrifice. Because often it turns out not to have been necessary at all.

 

[Fidelia]

I've found that if there is no clear decision being made and I really don't care, then I will narrow down the option (or have the other person do it) to two or three options. If they still won't pick, then I either do, or just flip a coin.

 

[redacted]

Yeah I have real problems asserting myself because I (condescendingly) think I can handle compromise better than others. I pay more attention to keeping the outer peace than my inner peace.

But yeah, it's a problem.

 

[Lauren]

I care very much about keeping the outer peace and learned, from a very early age, that I had to take care of my own needs, though I literally could not have defined what those were. I didn't know and even today, if someone asks me, I have a hard time knowing what those needs are or if I know, expressing them. I learned early on to disappear within my family so that I could help them if I could. There was so much hurt that needed mending and I was (and still am) the optimistic one, the cup half full person. I feel that most people feel lost and if I can help them feel better or give them something they want (and I don't care about what is desired either way) than I will give them that. However, I do have some needs (for a person to be honest, loyal, if they are in my inner circle) and to hear me when I say what matters to me. To not judge. Not expressing those needs that I do have, though, has caused me problems. Because whether or not I say that I have them, I do have them, and they will surface.

About nature: John Muir said: "By going out I found I was really going in." That's what it is for me. To be in wilderness and know everything is taking care of itself in its own unselfconscious way allows a person to have compassion, I think, for themselves and each other.

 

[Such Irony]

Functionwise, I'm an INTP, so I'm an Fe user as well but for me its in the inferior position. After reading this thread, I kind of wonder if I'm not really an FJ type because I relate to much of what you say. Of the four FJ types, ISFJ would be the most likely. I'm definitely introverted, so ESFJ and ENFJ are out. I have good to excellent but only average usage of Ni according to the functions test. So that makes ISFJ most likely.

Strangely enough, I identify with a good part of the ISFJ profile. Maybe its just this whole Ti/Si loop thing. However, I have much stronger Ne than would be expected for an ISFJ. Also, I show 'limited' use of Fe on the functions test. An ISFJ should have stronger Fe than that. I think alot of those Fe questions were especially geared towards dominant Fe types. For example, I don't relate to engaging in hosting and caretaking. As an introvert whose rather detached, I rarely get asked to play that role. I'm not particularly interested in playing that role anyway. I don't want that sort of responsibility and prefer to act more independent of others. I'm content to let someone else do it.

Like ISFJs, I frequently put others' needs ahead of my own and can be very reliable. I can be quite detail oriented if know what details to focus on. I'm loyal but probably not loyal to a fault like ISFJs are. I am more questioning of conventions in general than ISFJs. Although, with others I often don't want to rock the boat so sometimes with others, I'll just conform and blend in and follow the rules but when I'm alone and no one's looking, then I'll just go ahead and do my own thing.

 

[Random Ness]

One other thought on what nature does for me - the aspect of centering basically equates to my getting out of my head. In mbti terms, it's probably my jumping to Se. In any event, I open my eyes to the world around me, and the moment, and the moment is beautiful. My 'presence' no longer being in my brain and instead looking through my eyes around me is the best feeling ever. It's like a temporary reprieve.

I never really thought of it this way. Is it true for the other types, too? That engaging in your fourth function can "liberate" you from the problems that arise from your first function? I guess that makes sense, since your first and fourth functions are opposites that go hand-in-hand.

I've found there to be a sifting process. When self-reflecting, it's unlike an Fi user in the sense that I almost require self-reflecting to another person. If I am explaining myself to someone, or a pseudo-social atmosphere like a blog, then I discover more connections and bounce more concepts back and forth. Without others to discuss with or observe, I recoil and recount the same information over and over. If related, there would be no doubt that underdeveloped Fe would want to consume others and accomodate to do so, rather than recognize how they must also reflect at the same time to make progress.

I thought that was more of an extrovert thing? But I've also heard the same type of thing for Ne users. So now I'm confused.

Or don't see the need to at least indicate they're making a sacrifice. Because often it turns out not to have been necessary at all.

This goes against everything that is immature Fe! Lol. But you're right.

After reading this thread, I kind of wonder if I'm not really an FJ type because I relate to much of what you say.

I find that happens with a lot of threads. The issues brought up are not Fe-exclusive--we're just trying to put it under the Fe umbrella so we can seperate what makes our thought processes different from others.

To illustrate, I find I can relate to Fi threads a lot. Though I still find obvious differences between me and what is being discussed about Fi. It kind of reminds me of an empath thread I was involved in in personalitycafe. Both INFJs and INFPs can be empaths: easily picking up on what a person is feeling, easily being affected by emotional atmospheres, and easily getting emotional overloads. But there's a divergence. More of the INFPs in the thread said they struggle with avoiding people/situations where the people are negative because their negativity will affect their mood and self-esteem, and they struggle with being jealous of people who are not affected by emotional atmospheres. More of the INFJs in the thread said they struggle with not being able to seperate the other person's emotions from their own and feeling guilty that they don't have to go through what the person is going through, thereby affecting their self-esteem.

I guess what I'm saying is, take the characteristics that describe Si, Ne, Fe, Ti, and Ni users and try to find key divergences that seperate your personality from theirs. Good luck with your self-discovery journey.

 

[Random Ness]

If you don't relate to the OP, remember that what I said is on the extreme side of young and immature Fe. Not older and more developed Fe, like you might have if you don't relate. I didn't beat around the bush in my OP. I didn't just list out idealistically good characteristics like MBTI descriptions too often do.

All your insights are awesome, guys! And we finally got more than INFJs to respond!

 

[Such Irony]

Among two Fe-users, this can cause nothing to get done. Take me and my INFJ friend. When we are deciding what to do, it goes like this: "What do you want to do?" "What do YOU want to do?" "I don't care what we do. It's up to you." "No really, it's up to YOU." Either we randomly switch between activities, not really knowing what we ourselves want to do. Or, one of us actually does have an opinion and says: "Fuck it. I want this." without acknowledging what the other person wants at all. And, both of us being people pleasers, the other person submissively goes along with it.

I sorta relate to this. Eventually, I know one of us has to make a decision and usually I'm the one to ultimately make the decision, while making sure the other one is okay with it.

Not reacting until someone else reacts, then matching their reaction. We don't know how to act around you or what to think about you until you react first. That way, we can be most pleasing to you. Or, if you react negatively, then we assume it would be most logical to you if we were negative back. Until you react to us, this can make you think we're indifferent and uncaring about you. It also prevents you from knowing what we truly think of you. If we can seperate ourselves from you enough to even have our own opinion about you.

I also relate to this.

I think it comes down to your values. Maybe harmony is a key value to Fe users?

It's definitely a key value for me.

I actually am quite opinionful and do not easily change those, but I do some adjusting using the reactions of the people around me to my emotions. Most people who only know me superficially are not going to see me risking a lot of unproductive conflict with them, so the people who get more facets of who I am displayed to them are those who have shown respect, reciprocation and receptivity to me, they are someone who I cannnot work around without dealing with our differences, or they are in my very innermost circle. So I don't think it's all a matter of trying to please because I don't know who I am. Instead, I am protective of who I am and I dislike conflict if it doesn't serve a purpose, so I am selective about who I show the less edited version of myself to.

I very much relate to this.

I think one of the reasons I tend to want to overaccommodate is that I hate emotional surprises from other people, so I feel that at least if I suck something up myself, I more likely can deal with that than the unexpected or unknown response from someone else.

And this. The hardest is when I don't know the person well enough to accurately predict how they'll react to me. It's why I hold alot of myself back at first. In a way its almost easier to deal with someone you know is going to be antagonistic. At least then, its not a surprise and you can prepare accordingly.

My tendancy is also to need an invitation of some sort that says I am welcome to interact with a person. A couple of years ago, I realized that I had missed a lot of good friendships this way. I was focussed on not intruding and on not wanting to be rejected, when many people are unsure of themselves and appreciate someone coming in and "imposing" themselves in a pleasant way. The one thing I struggle with is that all my interactions with someone are based on my last interaction with them, instead of working in real time in the way I relate. I think this is confusing to them, but because I tend to be more of a responder, I find it hard to interact until I've had some time to reflect on what really was going on during our last exchange.

And this too.

We tend to go on people's past behaviour and make decisions accordingly. If they were untrustworthy in the past, it takes a lot of time and experience to change our perception of that.

And this.

2. I show parts of myself that I can sense the other person can connect with; and I don't typically bother to show parts of myself that other won't connect with. So none of what I am saying is a "lie," I'm expressing different facets of me, but it is definitely a selected group of facets. Soooo..... I might really disagree with someone on an issue or even not like them on some levels, but I'll still try to make a connection by showing them stuff about me that I think they can connect with. It's selected/purposeful expression, rather than raw personal expression. Again, CONSCIOUS interaction rather than just raw unfiltered interaction.

And especially this.


There's more to come.

 

[Such Irony]

As for accommodating, yes, I do do that. But to be honest, I'm much, much happier knowing they're happy with whatever we're doing than sensing they're in some way unhappy/dissatisfied. Their unhappiness would make me anxious and I'd then lose any potential for happiness that I might have had on my own because I'd be so vexed by their vibes. And, often if I turn it over to them, I *don't* really care one way or another what we do. If I absolutely don't want to do one thing, I'll state that, but otherwise in a situation of ambivalence I'll always turn it over to them.

I identify A LOT with what both cascadeco and Jennifer have said here. Cascadeco makes a very important point here. Someone may accommodate me by going to something with me that they hate. However, the fact that they hate it spoils my own enjoyment of it and if the person is close to me, may even make me question my own taste or judgement in liking it.

I identify with both of you. If the others around me aren't enjoying themselves, I'm not going to enjoy myself much either. If I invite others along to do something with me, I want to make sure that they are receptive to it and they will likely enjoy it. If I sense that I have to drag them into it, I'd rather just go by myself and not at all. Because if I have to drag someone into it, then I'll constantly be concerned about their reactions and feelings which prevents me from truly enjoying the activity.

I also agree with Fidelia when she says that she may even question her own taste and judgement in liking it. I often feel that way. It doesn't even have to be with someone close, although if someone is closer to me, it affects me more strongly because I'm likely to respect their opinions more. I'll feel that way for example when just discussing movies, for example with acquaintances. I mention some movie I saw that was totally awesome and someone else trashes it. I then wonder if my opinion of the movie was really well justified. Especially if the majority hold the opposite opinion, I may conclude that I must have lousy taste and others are perceiving things in the movie I'm not and I must be stupid for not seeing the bad acting or holes in the plotline or whatever. Its why I hardly ever talk movies with anyone anymore. You never know how someone's gonna respond. I wish I could just talk about what I like more freely and not worry so much about dissenting opinions. I also wish I could hold more firmly to my opinions on some things and not be so amenable to outside influence.

A lot of the people that I accommodate will push me to do something new that I am fairly sure I don't want to do. I will go reluctantly and then end up enjoying it (trying new food, new restaurant, new activity etc - I tend to prefer what is familiar or that I know I can comfortably navigate even though I don't dislike new experiences). They are able to put up with the discomfort of knowing they are making me do something I don't want to. I find that much harder to do. I'm not as sure that I can make them love it or if they don't that it is not somehow a personal reflection of a shortcoming on my part.

Yeah, I have a very hard time convincing someone to do something they are initially lukewarm about it. I find the opposite much easier to do. Bend to their desires rather than having others bend to mine. I'm quite open to new experiences anyway and will try most things once (within reason). Unless its something that's truly repulsive to me or goes against some key values or principles or threatens my safety, I'll almost always go along with it. I also want to add that part of my enjoyment is in just seeing others enjoy themselves.

If I have an unsettling conversation with a friend, I can't let it go in my mind until I see them again. I can't just shrug it off as the other person having a bad day or saying something they didn't mean to say (even though that might in fact be the case). I'm so careful about what I say to a friend that I think my friend would feel the same.

I will also have my enjoyment of something I love spoiled if the other person isn't enjoying it. As Cascadero said, I go along with something if I'm ambivalent about it to make the other person happy. If I do really care, I'll let it be known. I'm so easygoing that if I do state I care about something one way or another, I REALLY care. I know that in these instances, I hope the other person will just give me what I really need.

I'm also so careful about boundaries in relationships and relate to what's been said about being invited in first. I'm definitely that way. I can see Fidelia what you mean about missing some friendships this way. I never thought about that. I won't push myself on someone. What Cascadero said about others feeling you're showing 100 percent of youself when in fact it's much less: yes, definitely I know others feel that they know the real me when I'm just showing them a little slice.

All this is scarily true of me.

I tend to go along with what the other person wants like others have mentioned, but oftentimes it is because it doesn't matter much to me. This is true if it applies to anything in the concrete world. I find it is easy for me to change (sometimes drastically) what I eat, how I handle money, or other aspects of lifestyle. I don't tend to be fussy about external things. I can't bear interpersonal tension, though, and couldn't have a fighty relationship. My personal relationships tend to be rather free of tension in that way. If the other person's nature is to fight then a deeper connection isn't made.

The issue of being unwelcomed company also makes me hesitant to impose myself on people. To have someone beholden to me for some reason when it isn't their desire is one of my worst scenarios. It tends to devastate me more than it should.

I'm flexible about doing things and going places with other people. If someone really wants to go to a restaurant that I'm not all that crazy about, I'll usually go. However, I'm not as flexible as you are regarding everyday eating habits or handling money. I don't want to sacrifice too much of myself and my own ways of doing things for the sake of a relationship. Its one thing to go to a restaurant once in a while serving food you normally don't eat. It's another thing to be in a relationship where you are served that same food *all the time*.

I'm definitely with you on not wanting to have a fighty relationship. Harmony is very important to me and I am made more uneasy by disharmony than most people I know.

I'm also very sensitive about whether or not I'm being perceived as unwanted company and I'm very careful not to impose on others too much.

I do get incredibly thrown off when someone I am close to demonstrates they’ve gained a perception of me that doesn’t match my perception of myself- especially if they don’t give me credit for something I take pride in. I can take constructive criticism about how my behavior seemed unkind or inconsiderate, but I can’t handle someone harboring secret negative thoughts about me without being willing to talk to me about it. I always pick up on those secret thoughts sooner or later and it makes me question if my perception of myself is faulty.

Oh is this ever true for me!

I find it ironic that INFJs are so cautious about not being unwanted, yet we have a hard time telling others that they are unwanted.

Yep, totally relate to this!

To illustrate, I find I can relate to Fi threads a lot. Though I still find obvious differences between me and what is being discussed about Fi. It kind of reminds me of an empath thread I was involved in in personalitycafe. Both INFJs and INFPs can be empaths: easily picking up on what a person is feeling, easily being affected by emotional atmospheres, and easily getting emotional overloads. But there's a divergence. More of the INFPs in the thread said they struggle with avoiding people/situations where the people are negative because their negativity will affect their mood and self-esteem, and they struggle with being jealous of people who are not affected by emotional atmospheres. More of the INFJs in the thread said they struggle with not being able to seperate the other person's emotions from their own and feeling guilty that they don't have to go through what the person is going through, thereby affecting their self-esteem.

I guess what I'm saying is, take the characteristics that describe Si, Ne, Fe, Ti, and Ni users and try to find key divergences that seperate your personality from theirs. Good luck with your self-discovery journey.

Now in that example, I moderately relate to INFP and not at all to INFJ.

However, considering how much of the other stuff in this thread I strongly relate to, you gotta wonder if I'm not really some sort of FJ type. Really, would most INTPs relate to so much of this stuff to the degree that I do?

 

[Fidelia]

I do identify with what Unkindloving said about needing someone around to bounce thoughts off of. It's not enough for me to just write it down somewhere. I need somewhere where I'm going to get some kind of reaction, which in turn fires my own thinking in directions it wouldn't normally go by itself.