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  1. #11
    Glycerine
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    I think Fuzzy and Unkind are 4s. I am more like a 9.

  2. #12
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    This is an extremely interesting thread and I relate to so much of it, it's scary .. especially those Intuitive ENFJ descriptions on Dom's second post..

    Thanks For this thread

    I am pretty sure I am a 6w5.. but I score 4w5 a lot of the time too.

  3. #13
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    The connection being, for me, one that will fuse and remain, and not just be a flash in the pan that I must relinquish.

    And yet I seek out comradery. My sister has remarked on how people respond to me as a persona, and even add names to me that they call me instead of my given name. Even when people get to know me, they may still persist in calling me by the nickname.

    I have a strong sense of duty, and crushed myself for years bearing huge loads for my family until it broke me.
    again, i think 1w2 makes more sense. e4 is defined by feeling defective in a way that relates to the hypercritical e1 perfectionistic standards, but it's more of a sense of feeling fundamentally different and ALIEN than it is just feeling wrong, not righteous, etc.

    Yes to all of this. I don't know where I'd be without having grown up with my ENFP sister and my extroverted girlfriends. I might never have fully grasped my ENFJness if not for them. I would have remained deeply withdrawn.

    Shared with 4w5 - "Prone to the emotion of shame. Air of sullen, withdrawn disappointment. May live within a private mythology of pain and loss. Can get deeply morbid and fall in love with death." Yes, the very death I regard as the enemy in my upright position.

    If 4w3's mirror 7s, this may be what I have in similarity with my 7 twin sister. I have become less directionlessly volatile as I've gotten older.

    And since State suspects I'm a sx/so (I very much trust his evaluations),...

    My high expectations are there and I know it. And yet if my romantic interest were to show imperfection or weakness in some area, I would feel nothing but compassion for them and a strong desire to help them back into their place of awesomeness. That has many implications of course. I feel no sense of competition with my romantic interests, I admire them for what they do well, and the only competition that comes in is friendly pursuit of a mutual prize.

    I've been forced into survival mode for most of my life. No doubt I'm guilty of a good deal of this. And then I become plagued by guilt and shame for having to "use" people to keep myself afloat and my family alive because I truly care about people and their feelings. In desperate times, connections have saved my bacon more times than I care to count.
    my 4w5 infp friends are attracted to these weaknesses and imperfections because they see the beauty in them as they are with no changes. they are attracted to the most ugly because they can identify with it as it is, because they can subjectively understand it's story no matter how bad and grasp the emotional reality of the situation. they're attracted to its beauty because of its possibility to be honest in a world devoid of honesty. 4w5s love the jekyl and hyde thing, the nick cave world, hell even echo and the bunnymen. most of the e4s i know are more focused on mastering themselves than they are on theorizing and/or implementing social changes. they often think such large-scale projects are presumptious and pretending to have all the answers (and therefore disingenuous). 1w2s, on the other hand, want nothing more than to fix things. and now! they really hate and take things almost personally when something is unfair or doesn't work right.

  4. #14
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    That's it. We need a poll.

    I've read over the type 1 profile. It sounded almost exactly like my ENTJ best friend. I could somewhat relate to the decay areas, but not much to the rest. I do get perfectionistic and obsessive when under extreme stress, but I turn it in on my body. I start becoming hypersensitive to every little thing that seems to be "wrong" with my body. My father does this too. It's very strange. I have to avoid mirrors during these moments.

    Read the 3. Not at all like me. Glad I got that out of the way.

    This has been a most interesting learning experience.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  5. #15
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Just a note: I've just tested and read up with Jaye and she sounds either 7w6 or 7w8 (I lean toward 7w8 for her, personally). She said she related to the "social" subtype.

    I'm particularly interested to figure this out in the light of us being identical twins, and how we're the same or differ.
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  6. #16
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Do either of these statements resonate with you, Dom?

    I support and empower others.
    There's a right way. Let me teach you.

  7. #17
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Yes and no to both.

    Yes, I want to create a safe environment for people to make the most of themselves. No, I am not running the Salvation Army. I am reminded (perhaps weirdly) of George Clooney in "Three Kings". Is there such a thing as mercenery altruism?

    Yes, there IS a right way, and if I know it, I'll tell you. If you're a moron, no. If you're a moron wasting MY time, then yes.
    How do you feel about/answer those statement, Jags?
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

  8. #18
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    That's it. We need a poll.

    I've read over the type 1 profile. It sounded almost exactly like my ENTJ best friend. I could somewhat relate to the decay areas, but not much to the rest. I do get perfectionistic and obsessive when under extreme stress, but I turn it in on my body. I start becoming hypersensitive to every little thing that seems to be "wrong" with my body. My father does this too. It's very strange. I have to avoid mirrors during these moments.

    Read the 3. Not at all like me. Glad I got that out of the way.

    This has been a most interesting learning experience.
    so not 4w3 either? you relate most to 4w5 or 2w1? e5 is conscientious because of fear far more than because of dutifulness. we see the expectations of others as preventing us from contributing rather than being an opportunity to do our best for them and impress them. e1s have a far more effective attitude toward obstacles and frame them as challenges more easily than types with e5, which are more immediately depressing because they feel pointless and unimportant to us. e2s and e5s both have trouble saying no, but e2s have way more of a do it until they become hysterical and start martyring, whereas e5s don't really do it and kind of mope or just look pissed but inside they're so irritated they can't even handle it and if they have to do it against their will they get pretty fucking worked up internally.

    e4s i think are searching for cultural spaces in which they can define themselves. where they can celebrate their uniqueness above all else. it usually feels more about their journey than about the world itself. their difficulty finding a way into the world that can stabilize them and their identity. it just seems far less action-oriented, although it becomes more action-oriented when it embraces the high side of e1. the enneagram lit always talks about equanimity and acceptance, not the kind of heroism ideal that seems more 1w2 (and i don't mean this pejoratively at all). as a 5w4, i joke with my 1w2 friends about their love for practical reason and my love for theoretical reason. it's so different, more results oriented. whereas i like to focus on the theoretical possibilities at the expense of implementation much of the time.


    from her posts, your sister seems like she has a high level of self-mastery/well-being, so it's difficult to tell. i've found recently that i like the 7w8 confidence and clean, easy, decision-making. it's a relief from my waffling and complicating. 7w6s are more gentle and understanding, whereas 7w8s help you do what you gotta do and don't really focus on the internal state. they de-emphasize it. sx types of course focus on desires and passions, but the 7w8s avoid dealing with the fear issues. whereas 7w6s have either got it well figured out or it still makes them feel like they're on the run from something.

    the so types i've known generally rely on frames more prevalent and popular because they spend time everywhere. there's more attention to the frames of others, social norms, commonality, etc. sx types build their world out of more intensively inspiring cultural objects, meanings, ideas (frames, again). they spend more time/energy chasing and seeking. your inner world gets populated differently, there's less of a need for HUGE relevancy all the time. it's a slightly different balance. sx types crave intensity more powerfully than so types. so types like variety, but so can sx types. it's more about the intensity of the connection and its power rather than on a more diffuse, networking, alliance, etc. so tends to perpetuate information and sx tends to be going after something specific, so the kind of group leadership is different. a kind of basking in the group and being carried along vs sx having more desire to lead the group, make everything work together, feel purposeful and inspired, etc.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domino View Post
    Yes and no to both.

    Yes, I want to create a safe environment for people to make the most of themselves. No, I am not running the Salvation Army. I am reminded (perhaps weirdly) of George Clooney in "Three Kings". Is there such a thing as mercenery altruism?

    Yes, there IS a right way, and if I know it, I'll tell you. If you're a moron, no. If you're a moron wasting MY time, then yes.
    How do you feel about/answer those statement, Jags?
    Don't sugarcoat it. Tell me how you really feel. Lol.
    I do not think there is one "right" way. There are only "right ways" for each of us.

  10. #20
    The Black Knight Domino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    There are only "right ways" for each of us.
    Get outta here, you Buddhist hippie tree-huggin' patchouli huffer!
    eNFJ 4w3 sx/so 468 tritype
    Neutral Good
    EII-Fi subtype, Ethical/Empath, Delta/Beta
    RLUEI, Choleric/Melancholic
    Inquistive/Limbic
    AIS Holland code
    Researcher: VDI-P
    Dramatic>Sensitive>Serious

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