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  1. #11
    Intriguing.... Quinlan's Avatar
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    I think people might get the impression that we're not strong because we tend not to impose ourselves on trivial things, and most things people fight about are trivial.
    Act your age not your enneagram number.

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  2. #12
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    5) weak: IFPs are not usually externally strong, healthy IFPs are strong internally and courageous and don't feel sorry for themselves
    imo nfps arent weak, in fact they seem to be very strong people, but vulnerable. i mean they get hurt, but they wont die, they have strong will to recover and they do recover, no matter how badly they get hurt, if they simply cant recover fully they will still survive, no matter how badly things are.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #13
    Senior Member mochajava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    1) selfish: Fi users are not selfish, we just have a tendency to solve our own problems first before helping others. The analogy I use most of the time is like planting your seeds before you give away your harvest
    2) lazy: many FP types are hard workers, but we would rather work at a slower pace than more intense types like ENTJs and such.
    The way you describe it, Fi sounds awesome! Now I see why you guys aren't the ones with boundary issues necessarily, and why Fe users are quite prone to them. Fi sounds like it would lead to happy homeostasis, but I get where the misconceptions come from. This was helpful!

  4. #14
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    I think the description of strong in this case is probably related to Dominance as in the DISC. Unless it is something I am truly passionate about, I won't wield it like a sledgehammer to influence/control other people.

    As for selfishness, is it caring only about yourself, or caring about yourself more than caring about others? If it's the latter, then almost everyone can be considered selfish.
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  5. #15
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Yeah, I would never equate lack of dominance with being weak. Many people who act dominant are just being obnoxious.

  6. #16
    He who laughs
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    some things I would say Fi is:
    1) creative, in fact, INFPs are so creative that much of the time it is actually a detriment because it's so hard to focus on anything that isn't creative (aka, anything dealing with administrative tasks or manual labor)
    2) imaginative, again, this is so prominent in INFPs that it can actually pose a problem when they can't focus on reality (which is most of the time), however, FPs that learn to communicate introverted feeling to other people can inspire awe in millions
    3) values: FPs will not be happy with themselves unless they live their lives according to their values and beliefs
    :rolli:

    Come on! This is Fi traits?

    Not even Fi with Ne makes you automatically a creative person. Come on!

    And the focus on reality stuff.....


    Edit: On second thought this might not be a very constructive way of getting you to see my point. But as much I want to respect your point of view, I think what you have written in this threas has little to do with Fi. And I think you need to take a look at what is emotionally driven (irrational) and rational subjective values (rational). What you have written here seems very selfabsorbed and has little to do with functions.

    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    I think the description of strong in this case is probably related to Dominance as in the DISC. Unless it is something I am truly passionate about, I won't wield it like a sledgehammer to influence/control other people.

    As for selfishness, is it caring only about yourself, or caring about yourself more than caring about others? If it's the latter, then almost everyone can be considered selfish.
    Everyone is naturally selfish, regardless of type. Its in our nature to be selfish.

    When it comes to strong, Fi is weak when it comes impersonal criticism, but generally a rather strong function when criticism is dealt with in a personal way. And yes dominance is usually very low, unless you violate the core values like when it seems others are deliberately hurting others, try to strongly push their ideas which is against core values on Fi etc, then Fi responds rather dominantly.

  7. #17
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    Fi is all the things that have been written about it by experts who have studied it. Even if you don't like it.. SO why people keep feeling the need to redefine a well defined concept is beyond me.


    Here is an idea for you to consider.. Those things you feel inside of you that seem to contradict descriptions of Fi , contradict Fi.. because they are NOT Fi.. If you recognize something in the description of Ti or Fe or Si or Ne That's because that is what you are using.. It does not mean the Pioneers and practitioners of Typology got it wrong . It means that you ALSO USE OTHER FUNCTIONS.. You are an "FI dom".. that does mean you use Fi in every value judgment situation. Of course you also use Fe and Ti etc etc..

    SO, lets leave the descriptions of the functions alone until we are accredited MBTI practitioners.
    And let's listen to the pioneers and practitioners when they tell us.. that everyone uses ALL 8 FUNCTIONS to a degree and therefore there is all 16 types inside of us.. Sometimes we are going to see ourselves in others. and sometimes .. despite being an FI dom.. you are going to use Fe or Se in certain situations.

    Every function has a good and bad to it.

    Thanks

    Arc.

  8. #18
    He who laughs
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    EDIT: So not to derail this thread I created a seperate thread from this post. Click here for thread



    Please carry on

  9. #19
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Fi is all the things that have been written about it by experts who have studied it. Even if you don't like it.. SO why people keep feeling the need to redefine a well defined concept is beyond me.


    SO, lets leave the descriptions of the functions alone until we are accredited MBTI practitioners.
    And let's listen to the pioneers and practitioners when they tell us.. that everyone uses ALL 8 FUNCTIONS to a degree and therefore there is all 16 types inside of us.. Sometimes we are going to see ourselves in others. and sometimes .. despite being an FI dom.. you are going to use Fe or Se in certain situations.

    Every function has a good and bad to it.

    Thanks

    Arc.
    actually, there is disagreement as whether or not we actually use all 8 functions consciously, even among MBTI experts. just pointing that out, I actually agree with you in thinking that we do though.
    also, the purpose is not defining Fi, the purpose here is understanding Fi, which does require dialogue and exploration, especially for us NP types (Ne learns well through discussion and intellectual games)

  10. #20
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    Fi is all the things that have been written about it by experts who have studied it. Even if you don't like it.. SO why people keep feeling the need to redefine a well defined concept is beyond me.
    because being an expert doesn't make you right.

    this is one of those posts - and no offense, arclight, you know i like you and i appreciate your ideas - but this is a post that makes me Feel like it's a problem to discuss Fi anywhere. the feeling is "why can't we just talk about Fi in this thread without someone coming in and telling us we're wrong and should stop?" right now it seems like what you're implying is pretty much "just stop talking because i don't like your ideas (because they don't agree with an authority [who i have personally decided is correct])."

    the way i see things, if you have a problem with what elfboy's saying (i do too, actually), then you should show why his ideas are creating a problem. right now it just seems like you're saying "listen to the experts and don't trust yourself." but that kind of defeats the purpose of psychology, doesn't it?

    as for talking about Fi... it's rather confusing; even the best definitions are kind of fuzzy. it's like Ni - you know what it is, and you know when you know something in a Ni way, but how to describe its functioning? it's interesting to talk about because it's somewhat mysterious even to those who use it all the time. i think we want to define and redefine it - really, i think the goal is just to discuss it - because it is so elusive, just like Ni, the other non-linear introverted function.

    some things I would say Fi is:
    1) creative, in fact, INFPs are so creative that much of the time it is actually a detriment because it's so hard to focus on anything that isn't creative (aka, anything dealing with administrative tasks or manual labor)
    2) imaginative, again, this is so prominent in INFPs that it can actually pose a problem when they can't focus on reality (which is most of the time), however, FPs that learn to communicate introverted feeling to other people can inspire awe in millions
    3) values: FPs will not be happy with themselves unless they live their lives according to their values and beliefs

    - perhaps less creative and more associative. there is so much association that it can become very difficult to compartmentalize and wall off one feeling tone from the next.

    -perhaps less imaginative and more idealistic. Fi users don't attend to reality because they seek something better than reality. when an FP learns to communicate Fi to others, it can be inspiring, because it draws the other people to see a hope of something better as well.

    i'm still not sure if this is totally removed from Ne. but maybe a little closer.

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