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  1. #11
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    You apparently are not totally opposed higher works of literature, however.
    Aren't I? I'm sorry hon, I don't understand what you mean.

    To be clear, however, I am not meaning that they have to be masters of what they pursue, just the desire to pursue.
    I understood that you meant that. I am an INTJ/INFJ mixture, and I have no interest in the classical subjects you mentioned. I took an interest in classical music a few years ago, but only because I felt guilted into it. I was afraid people would judge me and think me uncultured. For the record, I hated the Classical music, especially symphonies, but I loved the music of the Romance period and the Baroque period. (I hate jazz music too - how very un-INTJ of me!)

    Maybe I'm not INFJ enough to be drawn to the Classical Arts and Thinkers.

    But your question about pop culture strikes a chord with me because I chose pop music as my medium of expression. I was an avid pop music fan and I wrote and sang pop music, as well.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Aren't I? I'm sorry hon, I don't understand what you mean.

    You like Jane Austen.

    but I loved the music of the Romance period and the Baroque period
    In my opinion the Baroque period is the best. I like the structure of it.

  3. #13
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Intellectualism isn't always a good thing. Reason is only as good as the knowledge it is based upon. A certain amount of faith outside of the intellectual is wise. I suppose that makes me anti-intellectual. But I don't think it came from an external source, just a mistrust in "intellectual" explanations for things that just didn't "feel" right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  4. #14
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    You like Jane Austen.



    In my opinion the Baroque period is the best. I like the structure of it.
    Ah! Does Jane Austen count??!! Cool!!

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    But your question about pop culture strikes a chord with me because I chose pop music as my medium of expression. I was an avid pop music fan and I wrote and sang pop music, as well.

    Sorry, I tried to be careful and make it clear I am not passing judgment on whether or not pop culture is a valid or worthy topic. I like much pop music myself, especially the singer songwriter period and the new wave period of the 80s so I am the last person to try and make the case it is a valid medium of expression.

    I am merely wondering about the stereotype that NF will most often gravitate towards what has held the stereotype of being "intellectual" and if it is possible for an NF to be prejudiced or uninterested in things like classical literaure, philosophy etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by INTJMom View Post
    Ah! Does Jane Austen count??!! Cool!!

    Well, she gets my vote, for what it is worth.

    I would for the purposes of this discussion take the "Harry Potter" books as literature, but something like "House" as pop culture.

  6. #16
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    Re OP:

    An individual can be intellectual without having lofty aspirations and achievements or obscure talents and interests. If you apply your intellect to your introspections and insights.. or your "inner world", then you most certainly are NOT an anti-intellectual. INFs have an incredible grasp on their feelings and intuitions.. and that is of intellectual merit IMO.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    Re OP:

    An individual can be intellectual without having lofty aspirations and achievements or obscure talents and interests. If you apply your intellect to your introspections and insights.. or your "inner world", then you most certainly are NOT an anti-intellectual. INFs have an incredible grasp on their feelings and intuitions.. and that is of intellectual merit IMO.
    Thank you for your take here. BTW, I agree with what you say here 100 percent myself.

  8. #18
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by athenian200 View Post
    I believe it's more likely for INFP's to be anti-intellectual, but that it would be rare for INFJ's (granted, I may be biased). I'm pretty sure the tertiary Ti would lead INFJ's to that at some point, but the Si might keep INFP's steeped in tradition more. Although I think most of both types get into higher subjects eventually, if their environments and experiences don't prejudice them against it. And Fi isn't as malleable, because once a (potentially bad) value gets stuck in there, it can't be changed by normal means (if at all).

    Don't get me wrong, of course. I like INFP's because they have a greater insight into the emotion itself, because they don't need to envision and apply a pattern to see it, and they generally have a certain depth...
    hmm. probably not.

    "Some INFPs enjoy a good debate. They actually enjoy getting in there and "rearranging people's thinking."

    Are you aware that's extraverted Thinking at work?

    Extraverted Thinking is about using logic, sequencing, and organizing to meet the needs of the external world (person?). It is about segmenting, checking for consequences, following guidelines (the guidelines of proper debate technique?), and deciding whether something is working or not. So it is common to meet INFPs who enjoy hashing out lively differences of opinion. Some of them did this all through their school years. Many of them were members of the debate squad in high school or college!

    For me, there's nothing like a lively debate to drive me up the wall. I admire people who can do it successfully, because I just want to duck and run. It is rare for me to have any faith whatsoever that I can win a fair argument -- it's easier to quit the field.

    You may be wondering how can it be that INFPs would display so much extraverted Thinking.... especially when it's their inferior function.

    Remember, I subscribe to Dr. Beebe's model, and he explains that "inferior" does not mean "lesser than" -- as in poor/inferior quality. According to Beebe, the favorite function of all is "superior," and the fourth one is labeled "inferior" in terms of its position in the personality.

    Beebe's other word for this process is "aspirational." In his model, it is the function that tries to be favorite function. It tries really hard to convince us that it deserves to be number one. Thus, even though it may not be the process we are most naturally graceful at using, it is the function that repeatedly tries to convince us that it is the function that deserves a shot. Who knows? Maybe this time it will prevail!

    Whenever someone looks askance at me for suggesting INFPs revel in their use of aspirational Te, I automatically think of Isabel Briggs Myers, who had INFP preferences. Look at the amazing assessment she created with the MBTI instrument. And she did all the necessary psychometric calculations by hand, before calculators were created! For years, she re-calculated the impact of each new question she introduced, and adjusted the instrument to suit. It was a remarkable achievement, and an INFP did it. So don't tell me INFPs aren't able to access Te.

    I saw an INFP recently take on Annie Murphy Paul in debate over her book, "The Cult of Personality: How Personality Tests Are Leading Us to Miseducate Our Children, Mismanage Our Companies, and Misunderstand Ourselves." I was impressed by how masterfully he took her on, point by point, never losing a sense of positive regard for her as a person, or even for many of the premises in her book. I'd have made it a catfight in a second, and heaven knows I wouldn't have been able to maintain positive regard for her or her idealistic attempt to affect positive change via her book. (I lost my respect for Paul when she said they would have to "agree to disagree," and then abandoned the field.)"

    --INFJORINFP.COM

  9. #19
    Senior Member Gabe's Avatar
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    Yes, there are definately two sides of this intellectual thing. I hate when people try to use 'nerd' as a debilitating insult. But I also can't stand the un-deserved veneration that Ivy-League schools get.

  10. #20
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    That is an excellent observation, Gabe.

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