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View Poll Results: Fi ONLY: Do you feel safe to freely share your thoughts about Fi on TypoC?

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  • Yes

    23 63.89%
  • No

    13 36.11%
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  1. #221
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    I see uumlau and I are on the same tangent ...

    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    It was simply the most polite word I could find to express the idea.
    What idea? Out with it ... you want to take it deeper emotionally, like bitching or bawling about something? Is that right?

    What emotion to you underpins the Fi expression of a "feeling tone"? It's safe to tell me and I won't be offended.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #222
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    One thing I know for sure - IRL, Te users complain more than Fi users.

    Not sure if that helps.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I see uumlau and I are on the same tangent ...



    What idea? Out with it ... you want to take it deeper emotionally, like bitching or bawling about something? Is that right?

    What emotion to you underpins the Fi expression of a "feeling tone"? It's safe to tell me and I won't be offended.
    It changes, but in the recent instances this thread focuses on you could term it complaining/whining/martyring/whinging/etc. Irrelevant objections.

    Quote Originally Posted by highlander View Post
    One thing I know for sure - IRL, Te users complain more than Fi users.

    Not sure if that helps.
    Oh HELL YES. They will nag and complain about everyone around them when in the right mood. Which sometimes seems to be "awake".

  4. #224
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    It changes, but in the recent instances this thread focuses on you could term it complaining/whining/martyring/whinging/etc. Irrelevant objections.
    Those aren't emotions, they are synonyms, and I know I am asking you to stretch here ..... to complain or whine or whinge assumes a pre-existing emotional state ..... what emotions do you think I feel or have at the moment when I say "This looks wrong to me"?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Those aren't emotions, they are synonyms, and I know I am asking you to stretch here ..... to complain or whine or whinge assumes a pre-existing emotional state ..... what emotions do you think I feel or have at the moment when I say "This looks wrong to me"?
    Would it bother you if I said I didn't care?

  6. #226
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    No it doesn't bother me if you care or not, but answering the question is the point. Just give me your best guess.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #227
    Was E.laur Laurie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
    Others have posted and agreed with me. I've discussed this issue with other people before posting here too.

    Or I'm lying and I just like picking on you all.
    Yes, obviously I said you were lying and picking on.

    I'm sure you actually got my point.

  8. #228
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elaur View Post
    Actually the problem I see with Mac's post is him speaking for other Fe's. That is where the problem lies. I have non-Fi friends who don't feel the same way about Fi.

    "Non-Fi see Fi as complaining" is talking for other people and making your point stronger because "other people" feel that way too.
    I think this came up earlier in the thread when sleepy(?) protested that Fe can't speak for Fe. However, the very nature of Fe is that it doesn't speak out with certainty until it has gathered enough consensus to be sure it is not alone in the belief being expressed. Fe is also a much less individual function. There are basic guidelines or principles that allow the most work to get done while ruffling the least amount of feathers. We concede that the attitudes reflected then may not encompass each different shade of feeling or individual perspective, but there enough universal agreement and the criteria reached for those guidelines of Fe that most Fe users are going to be fine with it. Fe users may vary in how strongly or weakly they word something or in how willing they are to try to see it from the opposite perspective, but overall, the reactions that Mac has expressed are our first impulses. I have seen very few Fe users ever say "Quit speaking for me! You got it all wrong" when another Fe user says something like this, even though they would be willing to correct misinformation or miscontrued perception of their emotion (so it's not all group conflict avoidance).

    While I am committed to trying to understand opposing viewpoints better and to implement that into how I relate to people, I freely admit that my first perception of Fi often is that it is complaining. As such, it sometimes feels as if Fi users are requesting

    1) Everyone to adapt to them (even though they are one person and the rest of the group are many who would all have to rearrange themselves to accommodate)

    2) They are not subject to the same constrictions we all experience in a group (all of us have issues we feel strongly about - Fe users just tend to try to hold out for the battles most important to them to fight and look for the smoothest way to make their viewpoint understood and accepted. Losing out on the smaller issues is disappointing, but are part of what you lose when you enlist the extra thought processes and ability to harness many people's power for one project or cause)

    3) They see themselves as being much more perceptive and unique than other people

    4) They want understanding without trying to present the material in such a way that is palatable and taken seriously by their audience

    5) They play the victim.

    6) They are just unaware and thoughtless.

    I do understand that from a Fi perspective, all of these accusations are grossly unfair and inaccurate. I certainly don't feel that reaction to all Fi users, but expressed in an immature form, Fi can grate.

    I don't know if that's an emotion or not, PB, but it's what comes to mind when looking at the underlying issues that make us react as we do to Fi.

  9. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    No it doesn't bother me if you care or not, but answering the question is the point. Just give me your best guess.
    A sense of being wronged, indignation.

  10. #230
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    The underlying assumption is "nobody notices me/nobody understands me/nobody validates my perceptions (which are acute and unique, and my point of view being invisible to other people, they should listen intently when I describe it, because they can't see it naturally.)" The underlying feeling tone (jesus, must we) is pouty and stubborn, consisting mostly of "if you don't agree with me, it's because you don't understand me, and if you don't understand me, it's because you're incapable of comprehending my subtle genious, and if you are not at least grateful that I go to the trouble to express my subtle genious, well ... you should be." Something like that. Plus on and on about how someone has to point out that the emperor has no clothes.

    The thing is, nobody's blind, everybody can see the emperor has no clothes, nobody wants to stop the parade in its tracks to discuss what everyone can see. This is not subtle genious, it's more a firm grasp on the obvious and a major fail at understanding why the group praises the emperor's new clothes when he's not wearing any. I see how that would be very frustrating; it's like there's an inside joke going on that you don't get. But to keep putting it on everybody else that they don't get you is not entirely valid either. It comes to the point that one really doesn't know what to say anymore, it's like, what do you want me to say, jesus. Tell me what it is and I'll say it. Then can we move on before I rip out all my hair and run screaming down the street.

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