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View Poll Results: Fi ONLY: Do you feel safe to freely share your thoughts about Fi on TypoC?

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  • Yes

    23 63.89%
  • No

    13 36.11%
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  1. #11
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Unfortunately, I don't know that I have enough of an opinion on Fi to feel unsafe sharing it. I mostly just see it as personal values which I strive to live by.

    I wish people wouldn't attack/feel attacked by each other though.
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  2. #12
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    So, to address the paragraph on the OP that might have set arclight off:

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Personally, when we talk about Fi on the forum, I want to talk about Fi in an Fi way. I don't want to talk about it through the lens of Fe. Every day I operate in society through that lens; I honor it and respect it, but here on the forum, I dare to hope my lens will be respected, contemplated, and even intriguing for others to hear about it.
    I don't think PeaceBaby is saying that she's unwilling to meet people halfway, or that she's always unwilling to translate into other styles. Instead, I think she's saying that it should be okay to sound like an Fi-user; it shouldn't be okay to belittle and attack the way Fi-users naturally approach topics. It's especially wrong when the topic is Fi. It's absolutely ridiculous when the topic in question is Fi as experienced by Fi-ers. (Feel free to correct me if I'm interpreting you incorrectly, PeaceBaby.)

    A typology forum should be a place where it's okay to "be" your type, as long as you have respect for other people's approaches as well. There should be room for multiple approaches. I think PeaceBaby's point about how the grave-yarded split got labeled is illustrative.

    And, as I posted in another thread, I understand how going over the same issues repeatedly can become tedious for others. Fi, like Ti, has to figure things out for itself. We don't just naturally accept the general consensus. So, that means there's going to be a lot of retreading as we match our personal experiences to the experiences of others and to theory. But again, one doesn't have to follow every single thread, nor should one attack people for trying to work through things themselves.

    I personally tend to be very non-confrontational, and try to give people the benefit of a doubt (not that I always succeed). I also attempt to express things in a way that is precise and reasonably Ti-friendly, so as not to leave myself open to attack. That means I don't share some things that I suspect I would share if the environment felt safer.

    I accept that no forum environment is going to be perfect, and a certain amount of critiquing (and even conflict) is healthy. Still, I think it's gone beyond that in some cases. I don't know how resolve those situations, since I don't like calling people out in public nor do I want to stir up trouble unnecessarily. That leaves me at a bit of a loss.

  3. #13
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    Dear Seymour.

    First of all.. I am not "set off" .. Do I sound angry or upset? I am unsettled a little. Not by the topic, but rather how there seems to be an open attempt to not discuss the topic, except with those who might validate and support the claims made in the OP.
    Any "open" discussion involves all voices whether they are agreeable or not.
    I am also unsettled that I am considered an "Fe user" as though it means I cannot possibly understand Fi.
    I am an F dom and use both Fi and Fe in just about everything I do. Therefore I find this thread going down the slippery slope of prejudice. Which from what I can gather, is what the thread is supposed to be protecting itself against.

    And if other types wish to contribute to the discussion, please do, but know this: any mocking, derisive, one-liner, negative or otherwise unhelpful comments will be reported to the mods asap for deletion.
    The above quoted is what unsettles me the most. I find it's undertone threatening and hypocritical. I find this thread hypocritical of everything it is attempting to achieve.

  4. #14
    Emperor/Dictator kyuuei's Avatar
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    Hm. So is it safe to start out this thread by asking what everyone's personal definitions are of Fi? I didn't read this so-called scandalous thread, but it seems to me semantics are being debated here more-so than what the OP is wanting. Maybe by defining, in each person's own words, what Fi *truly* means and laying it out helps? I feel like a lot of statements are abitrary and relying on people to remember things from other threads they may not have participated in previously.. so I'm finding it difficult to participate.

    Takeru, I don't think you're wrong in disagreeing with descriptions of things out there. But, please post what you DO think as well.
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  5. #15
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    arclight... i see what you mean about hypocrisy, but i think PB's just trying to foster a "safe space" where you can say anything you want as long as it's not aimed specifically at hurting someone else.

    even if something is reported, the mods will decide if it's a legitimate claim or not. none of us non-mods can really effectively stop you from saying anything you want to say, nor do i think anyone really wants to. we - and by we i don't mean just Fi dom/aux, i mean anyone who has felt this - just don't want to be personally attacked and threatened for our thoughts and opinions that we have been attacked and threatened over in the past.

    --

    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour
    And, as I posted in another thread, I understand how going over the same issues repeatedly can become tedious for others. Fi, like Ti, has to figure things out for itself. We don't just naturally accept the general consensus. So, that means there's going to be a lot of retreading as we match our personal experiences to the experiences of others and to theory. But again, one doesn't have to follow every single thread, nor should one attack people for trying to work through things themselves.
    yeah. so it's the 5000th Fi-Fe thread. so what? if someone wants to talk about something else, they can just make a different thread. imo, every new thread brings some new understandings. i don't get the "same thing all over again" claims. there's always something new.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Takeru, I don't think you're wrong in disagreeing with descriptions of things out there. But, please post what you DO think as well.
    For that thread in particular, I said that the Fi descriptions were too specific, I could essentially have done what Hopelandic did and mark most of those descriptions as false. If someone is going to claim that the Fi description is a general description, it better sound like a general description.

    I generally do post what I think unless it is counter productive. If I do post even though it is counter productive, I post with a sentence to lessen the load (e.g. "It only applies to me though.").

  7. #17
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    A couple of things.. I am an Fe "dom".. this does not exclude me from being an Fi user .. I use all 8 functions. On function tests, my Fi often scores higher than my Fe. SO regardless of my type , I feel I can discuss Fi and what it is with accuracy no matter what position it ranks on my function scale.
    Well, this thread isn't set up to debate the semantics of function theory. Since you identify as an Fe dom, I respectfully request that you please allow some space for Fi doms and auxs to share here, at this time, in this place. Your actions are undermining what I am trying to do for the group, and will basically ensure no Fi folks will share. Do you see how that impacts the whole forum and the long-term ability for this place to grow?

    Please, Arclight, please let this thread have a chance. I like you too and have no personal issue with you, and respect your POV. Share with me via PM and I will happily discuss it further.


    Quote Originally Posted by gromit View Post
    Unfortunately, I don't know that I have enough of an opinion on Fi to feel unsafe sharing it. I mostly just see it as personal values which I strive to live by.

    I wish people wouldn't attack/feel attacked by each other though.
    Thanks gromit for your thoughts - I share your sentiment as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I don't think PeaceBaby is saying that she's unwilling to meet people halfway, or that she's always unwilling to translate into other styles. Instead, I think she's saying that it should be okay to sound like an Fi-user; it shouldn't be okay to belittle and attack the way Fi-users naturally approach topics. It's especially wrong when the topic is Fi. It's absolutely ridiculous when the topic in question is Fi as experienced by Fi-ers. (Feel free to correct me if I'm interpreting you incorrectly, PeaceBaby.)
    Thanks Seymour, that's exactly correct. Thanks for the cogent interpretation, and your thoughts are appreciated.


    Quote Originally Posted by kyuuei View Post
    Hm. So is it safe to start out this thread by asking what everyone's personal definitions are of Fi? I didn't read this so-called scandalous thread, but it seems to me semantics are being debated here more-so than what the OP is wanting. Maybe by defining, in each person's own words, what Fi *truly* means and laying it out helps? I feel like a lot of statements are abitrary and relying on people to remember things from other threads they may not have participated in previously.. so I'm finding it difficult to participate.

    Takeru, I don't think you're wrong in disagreeing with descriptions of things out there. But, please post what you DO think as well.
    Thanks kyuuei for your post. What I hope to hear from people is how safe they feel to talk about Fi in the first place - my suspicion is that people are generally reserved on the topic here and don't share because they don't want to stand out, be made fun of, be incorrect or disagreed with or potentially face censure from the group for sharing their opinions. They can see what happens when an Fi-er starts to "stand out" - who wants to be THAT person? LOL!

    So, no, I don't want to really explore what Fi is here. That would break us into further semantics that detract from the question. But I am really interested in how you feel on the topic ... your opinion is important too!


    Basically, I hope to learn: Do you feel safe to be yourself here (of course, keeping in mind common-sense internet safety rules)?

    Do you feel you can be an Fi dom or aux, talking in an Fi way, without getting hopped on?
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  8. #18
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    Well, this thread isn't set up to debate the semantics of function theory.
    That is exactly what it is.

    But I will leave because I do not feel welcome to participate in a thread on a subject I am more than (or no less) qualified to discuss.

  9. #19
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    Arclight *is* an Fi dom, so just let him keep talking.

  10. #20
    Senior Member tkae.'s Avatar
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    Nope.

    All I'm gonna say on that.
    "Not knowing how near the truth is, we seek it far away." -Ekaku Hakuin
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