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  1. #1
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Default ENFPs- Question from an ISTJ

    Don't deny it- you're feeling us, we're feeling you.
    You love our apparent togetherness,
    We love your apparent carefreeness.
    It's cute when you say something bubbly, and we kind of squirm, at the same time we're loving it, even though our facial expression isn't registering that emotion.
    There's a love melody playing everytime we see each other.
    But somewhere down the line, the record skips, thing things that were at first cute are now annoying, and it sucks!

    As an ISTJ on this forum, I've read over and over again how I played into causing stress on the relationship.

    So I'd like to get some honest, critical feedback as to your blindspots and what can be done to make it work.

    Cause you love us! Don't deny it!!!!!


  2. #2
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    I love when you do my taxes.

    Ask every male ENFP how much they love ISTJ chicks and then come talk to me. ENFP women who like ISTJ men are usually insecure and want a provider and someone who seems to be "together". They want to be taken care off and that screams dependency issues. What they really NEED though is emotional connectedness. That takes communication and dropping down the stoic act...and more importantly...being ok with it.

    ISTJ men who fall for ENFP girls also do it for the wrong reasons. Like the chicks, they are drawn to something that they don't have themselves ( that zaniness of going about life, that spark and childlike behavior) and want to get it outside themselves.

    Now, ENFPs and ISTJs can be great friends. Some of my best friends are ISTJs. But that's because they know they are responsible for all their functions and I'm responsible for all of mine. In an ENFP/ISTJ relationship there is no reason for a ENFP to develop Te and Si on their own, and no reason for the ISTJ to develop Fi and Ne, because you won the lottery and there is someone happy enough to "do the laundry for you".

    And of course when things go sour, it's like a drug. You got used to it giving you things you couldn't normally get yourself, and then you have to go through withdrawal symptoms. But just as it's not good to be on addictive drugs in the long run....it's not good to become that dependent on something without working on it for yourself.

    I'm sure my post is unpopular, but the truth often is.

  3. #3
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moiety View Post
    I love when you do my taxes.

    Ask every male ENFP how much they love ISTJ chicks and then come talk to me. ENFP women who like ISTJ men are usually insecure and want a provider and someone who seems to be "together". They want to be taken care off and that screams dependency issues. What they really NEED though is emotional connectedness. That takes communication and dropping down the stoic act...and more importantly...being ok with it.

    ISTJ men who fall for ENFP girls also do it for the wrong reasons. Like the chicks, they are drawn to something that they don't have themselves ( that zaniness of going about life, that spark and childlike behavior) and want to get it outside themselves.

    Now, ENFPs and ISTJs can be great friends. Some of my best friends are ISTJs. But that's because they know they are responsible for all their functions and I'm responsible for all of mine. In an ENFP/ISTJ relationship there is no reason for a ENFP to develop Te and Si on their own, and no reason for the ISTJ to develop Fi and Ne, because you won the lottery and there is someone happy enough to "do the laundry for you".

    And of course when things go sour, it's like a drug. You got used to it giving you things you couldn't normally get yourself, and then you have to go through withdrawal symptoms. But just as it's not good to be on addictive drugs in the long run....it's not good to become that dependent on something without working on it for yourself.

    I'm sure my post is unpopular, but the truth often is.
    There are no laws of attraction-no formula of what you are supposed to like and not! Men and women ARE different- that's why the attraction is there. Take out MBTI and you find that people are generally attracted to traits that they lack. Not for dependency, but becuse it's 'different'.

    I don't get the maturity thing- I don't consider the trait as childlike. I used the word carefree to compliment the attitude that you don't worry about things as much as I do, which is attractive. A mature person sees that another person's strenghts as opportunity to become a better person themselves.


    Maturity isn't associated with MBTI. Learning to develop your Te/Si or Ne/Fi should be your goal period.

    You still haven't answered the question.

  4. #4
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I havent dated an ISTJ, but I have three very good ISTJ friends. I make them laugh and relax and they point out when I am being ridiculous. We bitch and moan together, and often I can Ne walk them out of being so bummed out over stuff. They also get all of my stupid Ne jokes, which isnt always true for my INTJ. He just stares....I am like, dude that was soooo funny. He just stares. So I can make them giggle....

    I am afraid if I was ever in a relationship with one of them, they may not like me because I am so messy.

    However I use my limited Te on things like taxes or bills which I take very seriously, thus I would feel really crappy dumping work back on the other person. We also share a preference for Si to some extent since I am old and wrinkly, thus I find more and more often I will choose the conservative accepted solution over something new. I can sort of stake a middle ground between change and solidity.

    Plus ISTJs, like INTJs are kinda cutely restrained. Yet they get all funny-cute Fi-eyed at times and it is pretty adorable.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    There are no laws of attraction-no formula of what you are supposed to like and not! Men and women ARE different- that's why the attraction is there. Take out MBTI and you find that people are generally attracted to traits that they lack. Not for dependency, but becuse it's 'different'.
    I know I sound arrogant, but trust me, people believe too much being smart has nothing to do with relationships or attraction, but it's not true. No one likes something "because it's different". You like something different if it has value. It's not like people consciously THINK they want dependency. It's not like ENFP chicks plot to get an ISTJ guy to take care of their taxes. People BECOME dependent, and LET themselves become dependent.

    Have you never found a girl so hot, you kind of wish something happened between you too? Well you ARE attracted to something in her (her face or body) but that doesn't say anything about her other traits does it? Your body might even react automatically to the attraction. That doesn't mean you're gonna marry that girl just cause she's smoking hot now is it?

    Analogously, just because you are attracted to other kinds of traits in someone, doesn't mean there's true potential there. It's gonna be for the right reasons. You can let yourself succumb to lust, or you can see if it makes sense, and more importantly if it makes you happy in the long run.

    How many people ask advice on the ENFP/ISTJ pairing? How many people find themselves at a point where it becomes too hard? I'm not saying all this because I have a pet peeve with you guys or anything. I just hate to see people fool themselves. Now, I know fuck all, about your relationship. And even though I don't know you, I'd prefer if you were happy. Notice how I didn't say I'd prefer if your relationship worked out. That's because the point should be for both people to feel happy and comfortable. There is just too much compromise involved with such a opposite pairing imo.

    I don't get the maturity thing- I don't consider the trait as childlike. I used the word carefree to compliment the attitude that you don't worry about things as much as I do, which is attractive. A mature person sees that another person's strenghts as opportunity to become a better person themselves.
    A mature person doesn't need a relationship to (realize what he or she needs to) improve. And I wasn't saying ENFPs are immature. I used childlike as a positive trait too. See, already our relationship is having problems IZ

    Maturity might not be associated with MBTI, you're right about that. But that's the whole point. I don't know how much I want to improve my Te or Si, because while in theory I recognize their merits, I'm perfectly comfortable being NeFi. And if being with someone means having a SiTe countering my natural way of being....I'm calling the wedding off :P


    You still haven't answered the question.
    Oh but I did. "That takes communication and dropping down the stoic act...and more importantly...being ok with it." Be honest with all the thoughts that go inside your mind and communicate them.

    I'd need some more concrete details to be of more help. I can already tell you though, that the problem often is not not wanting the same things out of life....it's HOW you guys go after them. Family alone, is perceived very differently in an ISTJs head and in an ENFPs head.

  6. #6
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    moiety can you not appreciate the value of codependence?????? Quit fighting the fight and just give in!!!!

    Okay, so seriously, the nice thing about these Te/Fi relationships seems to be the ability to Te style negotiate boundaries to prevent the other half from taking advantage of each other..

    But on the other hand, INTJs are utterly obsessed with improving themselves and those around them via forced change. ISTJs seem more interested in maintenance of what works well. Thus perhaps in an INTJ relationship, the INTJ will force the ENFP to be more responsible, where the ISTJ will let the enfp be lazy as hell, but be bothered by the laziness. I can say this for certain but it might be something to speculate upon and look for....

  7. #7
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    I started to write back but I figured out who you are... Moiety that is.

    You just plain do not like ISTJs. I'm going to leave you alone.

    I really thought you were a female- with some real strong opinions.

  8. #8
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    moiety can you not appreciate the value of codependence?????? Quit fighting the fight and just give in!!!!

    Okay, so seriously, the nice thing about these Te/Fi relationships seems to be the ability to Te style negotiate boundaries to prevent the other half from taking advantage of each other..

    But on the other hand, INTJs are utterly obsessed with improving themselves and those around them via forced change. ISTJs seem more interested in maintenance of what works well. Thus perhaps in an INTJ relationship, the INTJ will force the ENFP to be more responsible, where the ISTJ will let the enfp be lazy as hell, but be bothered by the laziness. I can say this for certain but it might be something to speculate upon and look for....

    See this an example of where the S automatically gets the bad trait, where an N gets the better, when both of them are Te/Fi...and both are prone to act the same in a Te/Fi manner, and where I see an N bias in the dynamic.

    INTJs don't force- it's not their nature. If anything an INTJ will be indifferent, where an ISTJ will be bothered. Neither will say much of anything until it become a big deal.

    A relationship can work if both parties are honest about self and the person they're with.

    I rarely see ISTJs complain aobut the ENFPs. We're more likely to want to work it out.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Is topic isn't directed at females is it? You said ENFPs, not female ENFPs.

    And, no I don't feel attraction to female ISTJs. But I like ISTJs just fine. My dad is one and so are two of my closest friends. I give shit/love to anyone IZ, not just ISTJs

    And that's ok, if you want to disregard my advice. Just know I'm as ENFP as anybody else.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Is topic isn't directed at females is it? You said ENFPs, not female ENFPs.

    And, no I don't feel attraction to female ISTJs. But I like ISTJs just fine. My dad is one and so are two of my closest friends. I give shit/love to anyone IZ, not just ISTJs

    And that's ok, if you want to disregard my advice. Just know I'm as ENFP as anybody else.

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