[ENFP] ENFPs- Question from an ISTJ

[Thalassa]

I talk to an Si dom sometimes all day long.

My ESFJ ex and I, one of our main points of connection were our long conversations. We still write each other long e-mails sometimes.

There's this thing apart from MBTI called "shared interests" and it seems to me you're presuming that the Ne dom has not developed their Si (and perhaps you haven't) and the Si dom doesn't use their Ne.

But sure, okay, what would I talk to with an ISTJ about all day long? I've got no clue. I've never been put in such a position. My grandfather wasn't very talkative and his idea of spending time together was each reading a book on seperate chairs in the same room.

 

[Moiety]

Maybe you're presuming I don't know ISTJs that share my interests (actually quite a few) and can't tell the difference of talking with them from talking with a Ni dom or a Ne dom or a Se dom. It's different.

But not here to say someone else won't prefer it. Just find it very weird.

 

[Lady_X]

So would you call your lack of desire a willingness to not adapt?

what does this mean? are you asking if i lacked the desire to want to adapt?

obviously all i know is myself and my experience it could be different for others but what i see is that the two might be drawn to each other sometimes because we're so different...maybe we find each others quirks charming in the beginning...maybe we unknowingly project some of our own characteristics onto each other because it's hard to imagine someone not feeling the same about certain things that to us seem so obviously right...so...really iz...it's not even about adapting...it's about two people with completely opposite motivations...so you compromise constantly...but all the while you're thinking this is so stupid...or so petty...and why is this so important...this is stupid...and you do it constantly...both of you...and it's annoying...and neither of you feel valued...you both disagree with each other's whole being...just...it's not about adapting...at least not in my view.

 

[2XtremeENFP]

what do you mean enfp blindspots?

 

[Chloe]

i know a guy who is married to ISTJ - boy, he is miserable. Its like he is completely alone in that marriage. And she is not of intellectual ISTJs, like my sister is for ex, or m ex-bf who liked bullshititng a lot, which is fhe biggest problem in their marriage. Onls thing thats keeping him in are his children and fear of letting her go; because he loves her but all his needs are unfullfiled in that marriage except maybe for safety.:/

i pretty much expect it to be like lady x's experience... i was with an istj but it wasnt serious relationship enough.

i wonder would ISFJ make a difference?!:/

 

[Thalassa]

I think ISFJs give and need a lot more attention. Couldn't really comment on how that manifests in a LTR, though.

 

[animenagai]

IZ, the ENFP's here trying to be negative. I do think that in general, the combination is not a natural one. I think most ISTJ - ENFP relationships don't mesh very well and that's all these guys are trying to say. It's incredibly important to find people you work with quite naturally and sometimes, you can care for someone with all your heart all the while knowing that you can only get so close. Of course, that doesn't mean that no ENFP's can work with ISTJ's, but do understand that it's a minority and expect that.

If you want any constructive criticism, maybe try doing something eventful together like watching a movie, going ice-skating, paint balling etc. Things like that usually bridge the conversation gap quite well and can give your more opportunities to really get to know each other. That's all I have though

 

[Thalassa]

OMG I was lying here falling asleep and remembered one of my closest friends from back in NC is an ENFP and is married to an ISTJ. They have a child together, and she said he brings a wonderful stability and calm to her life that she didn't have with others. She says they have a "slow burn" as opposed to wild passion, and it gives her a feeling of it being a lasting thing. They've been together for at least five years - I have to check - but it's significant enough, maybe even longer than that.

She said something to the effect that emotionally he was slow to come around, and she didn't want to put all of her eggs in one basket at first, but that came to realize that he was worth the slower process it took for him to commit - you know that whole thing where they have the Great Wall at first, but once you're in YOU'RE IN. That sort of thing.

She says he handles her moods really well, really calmly and rationally, and that he's a wonderful husband and provider, but that sometimes she has trouble getting to him to take risks or try new things.

I've seen no huge complaints from her, they seem to be happy from what she's told me about their relationship, it really seems to work for them.

 

[Elfboy]

perhaps it's different for me as a gay guy, but I find I'm mostly attracted to FP types because they're cute and playful

 

[Patches]

Also, I would be keenly sensitive to them being terse with me. My best friend in high school was an ISTJ and she made me cry more than once. Her bluntness and her lack of awareness about how what she said would be received by others both hurt and angered me.

I'm inclined to agree with this from the opposite perspective - As an ISTJ, I would avoid dating an ENFP because they would not handle my coldness/bluntness well. I wouldn't be able offer them the kind of emotional support they needed. In a way, I would be borderline emotionally abusive to a more sensitive NFP - and it wouldn't be on purpose. That relationship just goes nowhere good.

And what's the problem with that? True love conquers all.

I'll take financial stability and a good sex life over true love any day.

(And in that single statement, I probably just confirmed several ENFPs fears about dating ISTJs. Please, don't judge all those other ISTJs based on my words. )

 

[IZthe411]

what does this mean? are you asking if i lacked the desire to want to adapt?

obviously all i know is myself and my experience it could be different for others but what i see is that the two might be drawn to each other sometimes because we're so different...maybe we find each others quirks charming in the beginning...maybe we unknowingly project some of our own characteristics onto each other because it's hard to imagine someone not feeling the same about certain things that to us seem so obviously right...so...really iz...it's not even about adapting...it's about two people with completely opposite motivations...so you compromise constantly...but all the while you're thinking this is so stupid...or so petty...and why is this so important...this is stupid...and you do it constantly...both of you...and it's annoying...and neither of you feel valued...you both disagree with each other's whole being...just...it's not about adapting...at least not in my view.

The motivation is love for the person..........which would work if both parties are committed to the relationship. Love is bigger than MBTI, isn't it? If it's about us, not you, wouldn't it work?

I'm just asking the question....when I say ENFP blindspots, I mean being so concerned about your own needs that you forget that person has needs as well, and there has to be a willingness to compromise to make it work. I really fail to see how 2 mature people couldn't learn to work with each other, and make it work.

I'm not talking personal preference. I find on this board, though, there's no talk of if you really love this person, how much compromise am I willing to make? Just like you'd want this guy to be a little more emotionally connected, how receptive are you of the guy's wishes (whatever the particulars are, because no ISTJ is the same?) I'm just saying if you are saying it won't work based off preconceived notions that opposing functions don't work, you're missing the forest for a few trees, aren't you?

 

[IZthe411]

OMG I was lying here falling asleep and remembered one of my closest friends from back in NC is an ENFP and is married to an ISTJ. They have a child together, and she said he brings a wonderful stability and calm to her life that she didn't have with others. She says they have a "slow burn" as opposed to wild passion, and it gives her a feeling of it being a lasting thing. They've been together for at least five years - I have to check - but it's significant enough, maybe even longer than that.

She said something to the effect that emotionally he was slow to come around, and she didn't want to put all of her eggs in one basket at first, but that came to realize that he was worth the slower process it took for him to commit - you know that whole thing where they have the Great Wall at first, but once you're in YOU'RE IN. That sort of thing.

She says he handles her moods really well, really calmly and rationally, and that he's a wonderful husband and provider, but that sometimes she has trouble getting to him to take risks or try new things.

I've seen no huge complaints from her, they seem to be happy from what she's told me about their relationship, it really seems to work for them.

So why is this the exception?

If you say that it's because maybe's he balanced, I could say maybe you're not.
Feel me?

I don't think I'll get my answer though, I see there's a collective opinion on this board that it's an inherent flaw in the make up of a man that is ISTJ.

BTW I'm not angry or anything, but I swear I haven't seen any compelling reason to why the ENFPs are more likely to feel this way in the relationship. It might be that because we're Is you won't know either

 

[Moiety]

Preconceived notions that opposing functions don't work aren't more arbitrary than preconceived notions that relationships are based around compromise.

I think the happiest relationships are the one's with least compromise. People just have a penchant for martyrdom.

I'll take financial stability and a good sex life over true love any day.

(And in that single statement, I probably just confirmed several ENFPs fears about dating ISTJs. Please, don't judge all those other ISTJs based on my words. )

I'll refrain from commenting on that then, because I don't want people to think I only have bad things to say about ISTJs.

 

[IZthe411]

I'm inclined to agree with this from the opposite perspective - As an ISTJ, I would avoid dating an ENFP because they would not handle my coldness/bluntness well. I wouldn't be able offer them the kind of emotional support they needed. In a way, I would be borderline emotionally abusive to a more sensitive NFP - and it wouldn't be on purpose. That relationship just goes nowhere good.



I'll take financial stability and a good sex life over true love any day.

(And in that single statement, I probably just confirmed several ENFPs fears about dating ISTJs. Please, don't judge all those other ISTJs based on my words. )

You aren't helping, Patchy........ :steaming:
Have you been in a relationship with one, or is it your perception of how it would be?

If it's the latter, I can blame your Ne.

 

[IZthe411]

Preconceived notions that opposing functions don't work aren't more arbitrary than preconceived notions that relationships are based around compromise.

I think the happiest relationships are the one's with least compromise. People just have a penchant for martyrdom.



I'll refrain from commenting on that then, because I don't want people to think I only have bad things to say about ISTJs.

You're admitting that there is compromise....That's my point. How big or how little is really subjective at the end of the day. The ISTJ could be very accomodating, but the fact that he's not a Strong Ne and not a real emotionally outward person spells the end of the world around here for most.

 

[Edgar]

Relationships don't last because people are immature and selfish and have unrealistic expectations. Lack of compatibility might have something to do with it, but not as much as people are trying to make it out to be I'm sure.

You can have two mature and considerate people in a relationship - but that doesn't mean they have anything in common. I understand the concept of "anything is possible", including the idea that with enough time you can teach a dog to meow, but to me that seems to be a very long way to go about it when you can just get a cat.

But I don't want to speak for other people, and certain people (like you...and quite frankly, Edgar) seem excessively negative in relationship threads and always have something cynical and pessimistic to say.

There are plenty of NF sunshine in every relationship thread, where sweet encouragement and gentle advice is handed out freely. Since they do it better than I do, I stay on the sidelines in the threads where it is warranted. In the threads where it isn't, I come out with my cynicism and my smelling salts of reality.

And in any case, nobody is obligated to listen to what I have to say. One can always put me on ignore or have Haight ban me from a thread.... speaking of which, I wonder how onemoretime's legal career is turning out.

 

[Thalassa]

You can have two mature and considerate people in a relationship - but that doesn't mean they have anything in common. I understand the concept of "anything is possible", including the idea that with enough time you can teach a dog to meow, but to me that seems to be a very long way to go about it when you can just get a cat.

Well, Edgar, you should certainly get a cat if you want one. No one is trying to make you get a dog. Smelly dogs!

There are plenty of NF sunshine in every relationship thread, where sweet encouragement and gentle advice is handed out freely. Since they do it better than I do, I stay on the sidelines in the threads where it is warranted. In the threads where it isn't, I come out with my cynicism and my smelling salts of reality.

And in any case, nobody is obligated to listen to what I have to say. One can always put me on ignore or have Haight ban me from a thread.... speaking of which, I wonder how onemoretime's legal career is turning out.

I'm just suggesting that maybe it's not "reality" but cynicism. I've seen you show up seventeen hundred times in a thread where an STJ was one of the partners, and tell the other person not to do it. It's just a difference of opinion, but I've noticed a pattern.

I like to read your posts. Speaking of which, I'm still curiously waiting for your response to how a person maintains class even when raised in a mixed class family or when someone moves up in terms of education (and not just money), or is decidedly "downwardly mobile" from a higher class.

I'd laugh at your joke about onemoretime, but I might get in trouble since he hates me just as much as he hates you.

 

[Thalassa]

So why is this the exception?

Wow I was trying to be positive. Just take it for what it is.

If you say that it's because maybe's he balanced, I could say maybe you're not.
Feel me?

Not really, because apparently I'm attracted to ISFJs and INTJs. ISTJs just aren't my cup of tea, and you may have to accept the fact that all ENFPs are different - I've seen NFs who swear they would never date an SJ (any SJ!), ENFPs who say other NFPs are the best, NFs who only want other NFs, and NFs who are obsessed with NTs to the point of insanity. Then you'll have those ENFPs who want to be with an ISTJ. Take it for what it is, bro.

I don't think I'll get my answer though, I see there's a collective opinion on this board that it's an inherent flaw in the make up of a man that is ISTJ.

Ummm...nope. My grandfather was an excellent father figure and the rock of my life. He was the most stable person in our family. ISTJ males when healthy make excellent family men.

BTW I'm not angry or anything, but I swear I haven't seen any compelling reason to why the ENFPs are more likely to feel this way in the relationship. It might be that because we're Is you won't know either

*sighs* I like introverts. Different people just need different things, that's all. You're getting upset because you're internalizing what we're saying. I've done this before in threads where INTJs were saying ENFPs and INTJs should never be together. Don't do that - don't internalize it. It doesn't mean YOUR relationship won't work - you may end up like my friend and her husband and live happily ever after, or at least the closest you can come to that in reality.

 

[Edgar]

I'm just suggesting that maybe it's not "reality" but cynicism. I've seen you show up seventeen hundred times in a thread where an STJ was one of the partners, and tell the other person not to do it.

I have always advised against STJ/NF combo, that is very true.

On the other hand, STJ/SFP combo has a high likelihood of success, in my opinion. It makes sense theoretically and IRL evidence supports it. Also, as I have mentioned many times before, my parents are ISTJ/ESFP, and they have the most stable marriage I've seen.

 

[INTP]

There are no laws of attraction-no formula of what you are supposed to like and not! Men and women ARE different- that's why the attraction is there. Take out MBTI and you find that people are generally attracted to traits that they lack. Not for dependency, but becuse it's 'different'.

I don't get the maturity thing- I don't consider the trait as childlike. I used the word carefree to compliment the attitude that you don't worry about things as much as I do, which is attractive. A mature person sees that another person's strenghts as opportunity to become a better person themselves.


Maturity isn't associated with MBTI. Learning to develop your Te/Si or Ne/Fi should be your goal period.

You still haven't answered the question.

you dont even really seem to understand what he said. tells alot from istj enfp relationship.

ps. they are all mine MUAHAUHAUHAUHAU