[ENFP] ENFPs- Question from an ISTJ

[tkae.]

but you're using some classic definition of extravert that i and other enfps don't really relate to....some of us are in our heads in fantasy land just as much as you infp people...we just might blurt out those absurdities more often...and engaging with others doesn't really mean we're planted in the here and now...if most of the time were discussing the abstract or nonsensical...does it?

It's not that complicated a definition.

The I/E is the easiest part of the entire MBTI to type.

If you spend a lot of time around people and get energy from it, you're an extrovert.

If you spend a lot of time by yourself and get energy from it, you're an introvert.

There's no need to overcomplicate the definition.

There's no mystical magical secret to the difference between ENFPs and INFPs. It's just that ENFPs spend more time around people and get their energy from it, and INFPs don't like being around and need more time alone.

There's a girl in one of my classes who I thought had to be an INFP because she was quiet and unassuming. And as I got to know her I went to her dorm to hang out during a writer's conference, and couldn't believe she'd turn down a single-bedroom apartment to be in an apartment with two other girls. To me, that's pure hell because I'd hate to have that much social interaction in my "house".

I later come to find out that this quiet, unassuming girl is actually an ENFP.

The only difference between us?

She gets her energy being around people (one of her reasons for taking the three bedroom over the single), and I get mine being alone.

There's no other difference whatsoever. Anything else different evolves out of our adaptations to the situations that these personality differences bring into our lives. There's no root difference other than that. It's just that the social nature of an ENFP manipulates their MBTI to be slightly different than ours, which is evolved out of our introverted nature.

Don't overcomplicate it. It doesn't mean you're any different than us. It just means you have more social experience and a more social element to your personality than ours, which actually loses energy in social situations where yours happens to be fueled by it.

I agree with lady x and the definition of enfp extrovert - I'm more extroverted through being expressive or enthusiastic than I am truly extroverted in the classic sense

See above.

There's no fundamental difference other than where our energy comes from.

In fact, in that same class, there was a girl who was much more confident when she spoke, and if she hadn't told me then I'd never have guessed she was an INFP. I'd have guessed her an ENFP over the ENFP that I thought was an INFP. The only way I could have possibly been able to tell is to have spent hours with her and see if I could notice a difference in her energy levels. If she got more energized, she was an E. If she got drained, she was an I.

No other difference.

 

[skylights]

The I/E is the easiest part of the entire MBTI to type.

perhaps for some... but it's very hard to figure out if you "gain energy around people" if you also have a certain degree of social anxiety, which many ENFPs seem to, including myself. that makes things much less clear-cut.

personally, i go through bouts of intense people interaction followed by bouts of near-hermitage. my favorite social situation is to be at a large event, but mostly interacting just with a small group of close friends, or just with my SO. i also crash once a social situation is over, but if i stay at the event i'll keep revving up. i used to think that i was crashing because i was so tired from people-interaction, and that i just kept interacting at the event because i didn't want to let anyone down. only recently did i make the connection that the i crash because the external stimulation is gone, which allows all of my previously-withheld internal anxieties to surface. even my best friend thought i was an introvert who just got kind of open sometimes.

so, being an E was a very complex thing for me to understand. it took years. whereas the N, F, and P have been very obvious from the get-go.

anyway --
i see what you mean about being more "experienced" but i don't know if that really makes us any wiser. personally i've been in a rather small amount of relationships given my age. i think the experience is only going to apply if the realm is something we've actually dived into. if not, then we don't have any leg up - perhaps we're even at a disadvantage because we're not as secure in ourselves.

 

[Zarathustra]

I didn't pick the word, I just repeated it.

What word would you suggest?

I wasn't talking about the word... I was talking about the concept...

In other words, your premise that extroverts are better at learning from their mistakes is ridiculous.

 

[freeeekyyy]

I wasn't talking about the word... I was talking about the concept...

In other words, your premise that extroverts are better at learning from their mistakes is ridiculous.

I don't think that's what she was saying. She was saying that extroverts generally have more experiences to learn from, not that they're better at learning. The result is basically the same though.

 

[Thalassa]

perhaps for some... but it's very hard to figure out if you "gain energy around people" if you also have a certain degree of social anxiety, which many ENFPs seem to, including myself. that makes things much less clear-cut.

personally, i go through bouts of intense people interaction followed by bouts of near-hermitage. my favorite social situation is to be at a large event, but mostly interacting just with a small group of close friends, or just with my SO. i also crash once a social situation is over, but if i stay at the event i'll keep revving up. i used to think that i was crashing because i was so tired from people-interaction, and that i just kept interacting at the event because i didn't want to let anyone down. only recently did i make the connection that the i crash because the external stimulation is gone, which allows all of my previously-withheld internal anxieties to surface. even my best friend thought i was an introvert who just got kind of open sometimes.

so, being an E was a very complex thing for me to understand. it took years. whereas the N, F, and P have been very obvious from the get-go.

anyway -- i see what you mean about being more "experienced" but i don't know if that really makes us any wiser. personally i've been in a rather small amount of relationships given my age.

Yup. It's so frustrating when people who are extreme introverts are like "Oh I/E is the easiest part of MBTI." It's like ORLY? For me it was the hardest, and I hear that from so many ENFPs.

Then again, comparing Keirsey to function theory also makes things frustrating. In Keirsey temperament I am CLEARLY an NFJ. In function theory I am CLEARLY an FP.

 

[Rebe]

It's not that complicated a definition.

The I/E is the easiest part of the entire MBTI to type.

If you spend a lot of time around people and get energy from it, you're an extrovert.

If you spend a lot of time by yourself and get energy from it, you're an introvert.

There's no need to overcomplicate the definition.

There's no mystical magical secret to the difference between ENFPs and INFPs. It's just that ENFPs spend more time around people and get their energy from it, and INFPs don't like being around and need more time alone.

There's a girl in one of my classes who I thought had to be an INFP because she was quiet and unassuming. And as I got to know her I went to her dorm to hang out during a writer's conference, and couldn't believe she'd turn down a single-bedroom apartment to be in an apartment with two other girls. To me, that's pure hell because I'd hate to have that much social interaction in my "house".

I later come to find out that this quiet, unassuming girl is actually an ENFP.

The only difference between us?

She gets her energy being around people (one of her reasons for taking the three bedroom over the single), and I get mine being alone.

There's no other difference whatsoever. Anything else different evolves out of our adaptations to the situations that these personality differences bring into our lives. There's no root difference other than that. It's just that the social nature of an ENFP manipulates their MBTI to be slightly different than ours, which is evolved out of our introverted nature.

Don't overcomplicate it. It doesn't mean you're any different than us. It just means you have more social experience and a more social element to your personality than ours, which actually loses energy in social situations where yours happens to be fueled by it.



See above.

There's no fundamental difference other than where our energy comes from.

In fact, in that same class, there was a girl who was much more confident when she spoke, and if she hadn't told me then I'd never have guessed she was an INFP. I'd have guessed her an ENFP over the ENFP that I thought was an INFP. The only way I could have possibly been able to tell is to have spent hours with her and see if I could notice a difference in her energy levels. If she got more energized, she was an E. If she got drained, she was an I.

No other difference.

Introversion vs Extroversion is easier for some to identify, harder for others. I have tried to type people who I knew was obviously xxxJ and others who I knew was XXFX but everything else was harder to pinpoint. No letter is the easiest to pinpoint. Especially for ENFPs, their extroversion is different from the norm. To me, it seems ENFPs are energized by interactions that stimulates them for Ne or Fi reasons. If the conversation does not hold their interest, their mind wanders off and they get tired sitting there trying really hard to say the right thing but cannot because the conversation simply does not intrigue them. And let's say conversations with most people doesn't tap into those Ne/Fi wells for them, so it seems they are introverts when they just need a company more suitable for them, their communication styles and their interests and passions.

Ne-Fi-Te-Si vs Fi-Ne-Si-Te are different, in slight fundamental ways because of the arrangement of functions. It's not simply just infps are more quiet and enfps are more sociable for everyone. For some people, sure, it's really that simple. That one is obviously an introvert and that one is obviously an extrovert. But for others, it's harder. And that is true for every letter.

 

[Elfboy]

actually E/I is the hardest letter to figure out because it's a spectrum and not one or the other.
for instance, let's use ENFP as an example

ENFP or ESFP: ENFP will have dominant Extraverted Intuition an ESFP will have dominant Extraverted Sensing
ENFP or ENTP: an ENFP will have Introverted Feeling and Extraverted Thinking. an ENTP will have Introverted Thinking and Extraverted Feeling
ENFP or ENFJ: they will share NONE of their first 4 functions.
so you see, which ever one you are will be very clear and objective if you have a good understanding of the cognitive functions

however, with ENFP/INFP: an INFP with strong Ne and/or Te can easily be mistaken for ENFP and an ENFP (especially a more relaxed, intellectual ENFP) with strong Fi and/or Si can be mistaken for INFP. ENFPs and INFPs share all of the same core functions which is why E/I is the hardest to figure out. this is especially true with NF types. for a number of reasons
INFPs like to talk a lot and have deep conversation and are usually extremely assertive when they don't like something
ENFPs are very deep and intellectual and enjoy (and need) large amounts of time alone to process things
ENFJs are extremely visionary and need time alone to plan and clarify their vision for whatever task they are undertaking
INFJs care deeply about people and go out of their way to make people feel welcome and comfortable
ENFs can be very spiritual and deep and can be extremely independent
INFs can be very strong and passionate and have energy and charisma rivaling the most gregarious extraverts

 

[Zarathustra]

so you see, which ever one you are will be very clear and objective if you have a good understanding of the cognitive functions

That's awfully presumptuous about the veracity of the dominant model.

 

[sculpting]

I find people in the abstract to be very beautiful and I like to do things to help them. However interacting with people for more than a few hours is VERY draining and exhausting. I regain energy in isolation by spending time alone.

However I am an Ne dom.

So, I really have no conclusion to offer.

am I the only one unsure do I learn from my mistakes?! Does this automatically mean I dont?

I'd like some discussion on that too, from the ENFP perspective.

Learning from past mistakes. Well this will be somewhat oversimplifying.

Here is how I make a practical Te decision:
brain: Hmm, I need to get a car loan..
TeSi: dont get a high interest rate, dont get do tote the note as it doesnt go on your credit, dont listen to them talk about monthly payments, do pay attention to APR not flat interest, do go look at consumer reports, do take the car into a mechanic then take the car back and offer them a flat discount based upon estimated repairs, do look into a bank loan rather than a dealership loan, do not buy on impulse, do buy the plain car rather than the nicer car as nobody wants it and it will be cheaper.....and so on and so on....all this stuff just runs through my brain as soon as I start down the "buy a car" thought process. All of these things are lessons I learned from my past and by watching other people do stupid things when buying cars.

(Note: TeSi can learn by watching other people do stupid things.)

NeTe: I could buy a car in the paper, from carmax, from a delearship, from an individual, not buy a car. Maybe I could take the bus, walk, ride a bike, ride a camel, buy a helicopter, cross the desert and eat dates for lunch and drink mare's milk....I wonder if mare's milk tastes good....BACK on track...I could get a car, a minivan, maybe a dark car rather then a red car....

TeSi: The car should have a latch system for the carseat.

NeTe: well I suppose a bike could have a latch system

TeSi: WHAT? Quit being stupid and focus. Wait I thought this was about actually getting a car loan and you seemed to have gravitated towards mare's milk in the desert...How do we get anything done??? *wrings hangs to the heavens*

Making an emotional decision:

NeFi: I like a boy on the other side of the world.
TeSi: That is ridiculously stupid. Cant you see how that works in movies and for other people? That is destined to Fail.
NeFi: WHEEEEEE!!!!!!! He is cute.
TeSi: This is a very bad idea.
NeFi: *leaps off cliff* dragging poor Te behind it

(Note: emotional decisions must be learned through experience-I cant watch others do it, then learn. I am compelled to go through the motions myself.)

Later on:
NeFi: PAAAAAIIINNNNN, boys on the other side of the planet are all EVIL.
FiSi:*diligently transcribes that boys on the other side of the planet are all evil

Much later on:
Random Boy: I am from the other side of the planet
FiSi: You are EVIL!!!!! Te bitchslap o' doom.

and thus another Fi value was born.....These Fi lessons are agonizing and feel etched upon my soul. They tend to be somewhat generalistic and thus very hard not to respond in an Fi-defensive manner.

 

[IZthe411]

^ HIlarious

I'm at work now; I'll come back with a response.

 

[INTP]

^ HIlarious

I'm at work now; I'll come back with a response.

its

 

[Thalassa]

This combination does not work. I can tell you. Casually seeing ISTJ, would never fall in love with him, am damn sure of it. Is insanely boring, no connection, but keep seeing him because he is nice and does all the right things. He's interesting in the sense that he was born in Iran and immigrated to the states at 26 and owns his own business, and I told him I was teaching myself Russian because I have had so many Russian friends and he's like "Oh let me take you to a Russian restaraunt" and in every way seems acceptable, but I could never love this person. We do not connect. He like fits a check list of "Interesting. Has Traveled. Is Foreign. Is Successful. Is Nice to Me." and I still can't love him. THERE IS NO FUCKING MENTAL CONNECTION.

ISTJ and ENFP don't work, even when the check list is right. If I got into a relationship with this guy I would feel like an actress, like I was playing a part, despite his good qualities.

Fuck no. That is my final answer. I'm sorry.

 

[Thalassa]

And yes, he has actually tested as ISTJ after I called it mentally before he took the test.

 

[IZthe411]

It's not him. It's you.

 

[Thalassa]

It's not him. It's you.

LOL...no, it's the combination of the two of us together. Maybe he's more easily satisfied by the presence of a woman who he thinks is pretty, nice, and sexy and doesn't need anything more. That works for me in casual dating or in the very short-term, but to me that's not enough to base a relationship upon.

I've had other experiences with ISTx men here and there, and I can tell you it always seems to be the same thing...the same feeling of "something is missing" and that feeling quickly leads to boredom. Even when the guy was super hot, like this ISTJ baseball player I dated very briefly my senior year of high school as kind of a rebound after me and my longer-term ESFP "high school sweetheart" split up.

It's easier for me to bond with SFs, though ideally I'm pretty sure I should be with another N. I want a marriage of the minds, not an "acceptable arrangement."

I can tell you that even in my more exciting or lasting relationships with SFs eventually somewhere down the road it started to become clear that we didn't want to talk about the same things, or even if we were talking about the same thing, we would get annoyed with the way the other perceived the same subject.

I need more than that. I've read up on this, and SJs are satisfied by things like sexual compatibility, commitment, and a partner who plays an acceptable assigned role in the relationship - doing what a bf/gf or spouse is supposed to do. With SPs, they often need nothing more than sexual compatibility and the reassurance of being with "the mother of their child" or the person they share common experiences with.

This isn't to say Ns need more from a relationship (maybe they do, maybe they don't) but that Ns need different things.

This is what Edgar was trying to say earlier in the thread and at that point I was arguing with him, but have since then had experiences with an ISFJ and an ISTJ that made me realize he's right, especially when I also consider past experiences with ISTx men that I've already mentioned, and some of the difficulties with my ESFJ ex.

So my bad, I take it all back, and that's why I came here in the first place to admit that I stand corrected.