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  1. #71
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Post #13
    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I'm asking not for personal reasons, I've been thinking about it. I think this board really blows things out of proportion, and I think a lot of N users' perception of S users are very skewed to some bad experiences, with some people, and there is a very big assumption that they are SJs, without any confirmation except a few signs that aren't real indicative one type over the other. I'm more interested in an honest assessment of steps taken to make it work because you love the person first. My assumption is that the expectation of the effort is one-sided. As if the ISTJ is supposed to change their approach, while the other party doesn't.
    Post #67
    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I'm getting with an ENFP, noting major yet. It's crossed my mind. I know there's different feelings on the matter from ENFPs out there. I just like to see where people are comng from when they say things.
    OK, so now we're at the heart of the matter. Even though you earlier denied that your motivation for posting to this thread was for personal reasons, apparently it is... which is OK by me. That's why we're all here.

    I applaud you trying to think through how MBTI factors might play out in your relationship. And, there are a lot of people... especially NFs... on this forum that find it offensive to say that personality type precludes any relationship... And they are right. Two people of any two personality types can have a relationship. And, if they are mature and willing to work at it, the relationship can be generally conflict free.

    Now, my Te is going to kick in while I tell you that the above statements are a load of horse shit....

    Two people of any personality type can have a relationship... but that doesn't mean that they'll have a good relationship. Conflict free... after tons of work and tons of compromise... does NOT make a good relationship. I think this offends some people's belief that love will conquer all. And, a lot of NFs believe this. In fact I believe it. But love winning the battle doesn't mean love wins the war.

    What is happiness in a relationship? Well everyone has to figure it out for themselves, but in my opinion, there is always a logical give and take. A sense of reciprocity. A fundamental sense of fairness that what one gives brings a valuable and great return.

    Say I were married to an INFJ who is by some theories supposed to be (along with an INTJ) my ideal complement. Well, I've dated INFJs. And, boy they can be the most obstinate, overly analytical bunch EVER. Oy vay!!!!!! But learning to live with this differing point-of-view is well worth it to me because they give me something I want in return... nay crave... namely a transcendent experience. INFJs and I are on the same wavelength. So alike in how we look at the world in some ways. So different in others. But when we connect it's like magic. (And same with INTJs by the way.)

    Now take the ISTJ and ENFP relationship. Can it work for some people. Well, I never say never. But IN GENERAL I would say that the pay off for an ENFP in such a relationship is rather predictable. The ENFP would get safety and stability. The ISTJ would get pizazz and romance. But here's the problem:

    In GENERAL, an ENFP that picks stability in such a relationship is not living up to their full ENFP-ness. The very core, the very essence of being an ENFP seems to be finding meaning and meaningful relationships in everything she/he does. For an ISTJ, this is not what makes them tick. In fact, their worldview in some ways extinguishes this perspective. Thus in GENERAL, I would say this is a bad, though not impossible, match.

    Life is so short and so hard. Why not date someone who doesn't require so much work to find common ground? If I dated an ISTJ, I would find his stability very appealing. But eventually, I'd want to be my true self. I'd want to have long, passionate discussions, and meaningful connections with people, and have tons of analytical friends. My ISTJ would not be able to go there with me. AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG OR SELFISH ABOUT ME BEING HONEST WITH MYSELF ABOUT MY NEEDS IN THESE AREAS.

    Could I make a relationship with an ISTJ work? Yeah, probably. But I choose not to. I choose to spend my energies, not on compromising about all the things I'd have to compromise with my hypothetical ISTJ boyfriend. I think their are a lot of ENFPs out there that find such putting one's own needs first as selfish and morally wrong. In fact, ENFPs are so good at tailoring their approach and putting other's needs in front of their own that they can wind up in relationships that don't really work for them in the long haul. I think that for ENFPs in particular, knowing who you are and knowing what you want (rather than tailoring one's approach to the people around you) is the key to self-actualization.

    So I encourage you to have fun, but be honest with your needs, too. Do you want to spend the next 50 years of your life with someone who in some ways is speaking a different language than you (S/N)... that you will forever have to translate? 'Cause never doubt that meaningful, long-term relationships is the real goal of most ENFPs. So if you decide to seriously date this girl, you owe it to her... and yourself... to be honest about what about her will bug you in 10 years. This isn't being pessimistic. This is being realistic... and mature in your pursuit of relationship happiness.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  2. #72
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    good post ew.

    it's just that everything special about you...all of your special gifts are just not....needed...or wanted or valued...it's like being an incredible musician living with someone who doesn't really care for music...or an amazing cook and your partner prefers fast food...and a million other similar things...all day...like...you feel at your best when you can nurture someone...the other person is too self sufficient for that...you love exploring thoughts and ideas..hopping from one thing to the next and they just want a detailed plan of what needs to be done and to just get started now and stop wasting time...and on and on...and on...
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  3. #73
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    I read both your posts. Maybe I'm not ISTJ, then. I'm just not seeing the disconnect yet, where what she says is so foreign, so hard to grasp, but I'll let you know if it does. Honestly, I will. S/N definitely does not mean you won't know how to speak the other's language. It's just an indication where you reside. Doesn't mean I can't take it there. She might take the leap, but I can follow. I know for myself, I enjoy making the leap, seeing if I can see the same thing. I don't get frustrated, or think that she's wierd. I enjoy her. She enjoys me as well. We laugh together. Our discussions have depth.

    I'm not a checklist dude, either. I very aware of my blindspots, so I know where I can be a terror. I ask the same for my lady- to know herself. If she gives me evidence that she has my interests and my needs in mind, we're good. Because she'll have mines. And that means that she can speak my language too. If she can't , I hope she'll try . We're founded on a spiritual basis as well; you may not be able to understand it's effect on our lives. I was trying to avoid bringing into the conversation, but why should I? It's the most important factor in the relationship, wherever it ends up.

    I do wish you had your experience with an ISTJ with a little more balance, though.

  4. #74
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    Maybe I'm not ISTJ, then.
    This is the first time in the entire thread I have been in agreement with something you have said.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  5. #75
    Klingon Warrior Princess Patches's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    Maybe I'm not ISTJ, then.
    This is the first time in the entire thread I have been in agreement with something you have said.
    “Everybody has a secret world inside of them. All of the people of the world, I mean everybody. No matter how dull and boring they are on the outside, inside
    them they've all got unimaginable, magnificent, wonderful, stupid, amazing worlds. Not just one world. Hundreds of them. Thousands maybe.” -Neil Gaiman

    ~

  6. #76
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i just think it's something to be aware of and discussed as you two get to know each other...i would never really advocate using mbti to weed out potential partners...just...use the information to better understand each other and be honest with yourselves and each other.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #77
    Shaman BlackCat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    This is the first time in the entire thread I have been in agreement with something you have said.
    Have you considered all of the other various differences? Other than MBTI type you and IZthe411 couldn't be any different imo...
    () 9w8-3w4-7w6 tritype.

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  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    This is the first time in the entire thread I have been in agreement with something you have said.
    Honestly Patches if anyone seems "not ISTJ" it's you, so I don't know how seriously I take your opinion on the matter.

  9. #79
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    good post ew.

    it's just that everything special about you...all of your special gifts are just not....needed...or wanted or valued...it's like being an incredible musician living with someone who doesn't really care for music...or an amazing cook and your partner prefers fast food...and a million other similar things...all day...like...you feel at your best when you can nurture someone...the other person is too self sufficient for that...you love exploring thoughts and ideas..hopping from one thing to the next and they just want a detailed plan of what needs to be done and to just get started now and stop wasting time...and on and on...and on...
    Good post. My mom is ISTJ and this is exactly how I feel next to her. And I live with her. Likea musician but she doesnt love music... it's jut noise to her that is getting in a way of cleaning house, or doing something productive. Not the same as relationship, but I gave up on a lot of me, and my talent, during life, because my mom considered them as time wasting... so I'd imagine the same battle in relationship ...

  10. #80
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Honestly Patches if anyone seems "not ISTJ" it's you, so I don't know how seriously I take your opinion on the matter.
    lol I think I agree. I don't think any of the ISTJ's I've met have been as blunt as Patches for starters.
    Chimera of Filth

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