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  1. #51
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    what does this mean? are you asking if i lacked the desire to want to adapt?

    obviously all i know is myself and my experience it could be different for others but what i see is that the two might be drawn to each other sometimes because we're so different...maybe we find each others quirks charming in the beginning...maybe we unknowingly project some of our own characteristics onto each other because it's hard to imagine someone not feeling the same about certain things that to us seem so obviously right...so...really iz...it's not even about adapting...it's about two people with completely opposite motivations...so you compromise constantly...but all the while you're thinking this is so stupid...or so petty...and why is this so important...this is stupid...and you do it constantly...both of you...and it's annoying...and neither of you feel valued...you both disagree with each other's whole being...just...it's not about adapting...at least not in my view.
    The motivation is love for the person..........which would work if both parties are committed to the relationship. Love is bigger than MBTI, isn't it? If it's about us, not you, wouldn't it work?

    I'm just asking the question....when I say ENFP blindspots, I mean being so concerned about your own needs that you forget that person has needs as well, and there has to be a willingness to compromise to make it work. I really fail to see how 2 mature people couldn't learn to work with each other, and make it work.

    I'm not talking personal preference. I find on this board, though, there's no talk of if you really love this person, how much compromise am I willing to make? Just like you'd want this guy to be a little more emotionally connected, how receptive are you of the guy's wishes (whatever the particulars are, because no ISTJ is the same?) I'm just saying if you are saying it won't work based off preconceived notions that opposing functions don't work, you're missing the forest for a few trees, aren't you?

  2. #52
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    OMG I was lying here falling asleep and remembered one of my closest friends from back in NC is an ENFP and is married to an ISTJ. They have a child together, and she said he brings a wonderful stability and calm to her life that she didn't have with others. She says they have a "slow burn" as opposed to wild passion, and it gives her a feeling of it being a lasting thing. They've been together for at least five years - I have to check - but it's significant enough, maybe even longer than that.

    She said something to the effect that emotionally he was slow to come around, and she didn't want to put all of her eggs in one basket at first, but that came to realize that he was worth the slower process it took for him to commit - you know that whole thing where they have the Great Wall at first, but once you're in YOU'RE IN. That sort of thing.

    She says he handles her moods really well, really calmly and rationally, and that he's a wonderful husband and provider, but that sometimes she has trouble getting to him to take risks or try new things.

    I've seen no huge complaints from her, they seem to be happy from what she's told me about their relationship, it really seems to work for them.
    So why is this the exception?

    If you say that it's because maybe's he balanced, I could say maybe you're not.
    Feel me?

    I don't think I'll get my answer though, I see there's a collective opinion on this board that it's an inherent flaw in the make up of a man that is ISTJ.

    BTW I'm not angry or anything, but I swear I haven't seen any compelling reason to why the ENFPs are more likely to feel this way in the relationship. It might be that because we're Is you won't know either

  3. #53
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Preconceived notions that opposing functions don't work aren't more arbitrary than preconceived notions that relationships are based around compromise.

    I think the happiest relationships are the one's with least compromise. People just have a penchant for martyrdom.

    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    I'll take financial stability and a good sex life over true love any day.

    (And in that single statement, I probably just confirmed several ENFPs fears about dating ISTJs. Please, don't judge all those other ISTJs based on my words. )
    I'll refrain from commenting on that then, because I don't want people to think I only have bad things to say about ISTJs.

  4. #54
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patches View Post
    I'm inclined to agree with this from the opposite perspective - As an ISTJ, I would avoid dating an ENFP because they would not handle my coldness/bluntness well. I wouldn't be able offer them the kind of emotional support they needed. In a way, I would be borderline emotionally abusive to a more sensitive NFP - and it wouldn't be on purpose. That relationship just goes nowhere good.



    I'll take financial stability and a good sex life over true love any day.

    (And in that single statement, I probably just confirmed several ENFPs fears about dating ISTJs. Please, don't judge all those other ISTJs based on my words. )
    You aren't helping, Patchy........ :steaming:
    Have you been in a relationship with one, or is it your perception of how it would be?

    If it's the latter, I can blame your Ne.

  5. #55
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moiety View Post
    Preconceived notions that opposing functions don't work aren't more arbitrary than preconceived notions that relationships are based around compromise.

    I think the happiest relationships are the one's with least compromise. People just have a penchant for martyrdom.



    I'll refrain from commenting on that then, because I don't want people to think I only have bad things to say about ISTJs.
    You're admitting that there is compromise....That's my point. How big or how little is really subjective at the end of the day. The ISTJ could be very accomodating, but the fact that he's not a Strong Ne and not a real emotionally outward person spells the end of the world around here for most.

  6. #56
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Relationships don't last because people are immature and selfish and have unrealistic expectations. Lack of compatibility might have something to do with it, but not as much as people are trying to make it out to be I'm sure.
    You can have two mature and considerate people in a relationship - but that doesn't mean they have anything in common. I understand the concept of "anything is possible", including the idea that with enough time you can teach a dog to meow, but to me that seems to be a very long way to go about it when you can just get a cat.

    But I don't want to speak for other people, and certain people (like you...and quite frankly, Edgar) seem excessively negative in relationship threads and always have something cynical and pessimistic to say.
    There are plenty of NF sunshine in every relationship thread, where sweet encouragement and gentle advice is handed out freely. Since they do it better than I do, I stay on the sidelines in the threads where it is warranted. In the threads where it isn't, I come out with my cynicism and my smelling salts of reality.

    And in any case, nobody is obligated to listen to what I have to say. One can always put me on ignore or have Haight ban me from a thread.... speaking of which, I wonder how onemoretime's legal career is turning out.
    Listen to me, baby, you got to understand, you're old enough to learn the makings of a man.

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edgar View Post
    You can have two mature and considerate people in a relationship - but that doesn't mean they have anything in common. I understand the concept of "anything is possible", including the idea that with enough time you can teach a dog to meow, but to me that seems to be a very long way to go about it when you can just get a cat.
    Well, Edgar, you should certainly get a cat if you want one. No one is trying to make you get a dog. Smelly dogs!



    There are plenty of NF sunshine in every relationship thread, where sweet encouragement and gentle advice is handed out freely. Since they do it better than I do, I stay on the sidelines in the threads where it is warranted. In the threads where it isn't, I come out with my cynicism and my smelling salts of reality.

    And in any case, nobody is obligated to listen to what I have to say. One can always put me on ignore or have Haight ban me from a thread.... speaking of which, I wonder how onemoretime's legal career is turning out.
    I'm just suggesting that maybe it's not "reality" but cynicism. I've seen you show up seventeen hundred times in a thread where an STJ was one of the partners, and tell the other person not to do it. It's just a difference of opinion, but I've noticed a pattern.

    I like to read your posts. Speaking of which, I'm still curiously waiting for your response to how a person maintains class even when raised in a mixed class family or when someone moves up in terms of education (and not just money), or is decidedly "downwardly mobile" from a higher class.

    I'd laugh at your joke about onemoretime, but I might get in trouble since he hates me just as much as he hates you.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    So why is this the exception?
    Wow I was trying to be positive. Just take it for what it is.

    If you say that it's because maybe's he balanced, I could say maybe you're not.
    Feel me?
    Not really, because apparently I'm attracted to ISFJs and INTJs. ISTJs just aren't my cup of tea, and you may have to accept the fact that all ENFPs are different - I've seen NFs who swear they would never date an SJ (any SJ!), ENFPs who say other NFPs are the best, NFs who only want other NFs, and NFs who are obsessed with NTs to the point of insanity. Then you'll have those ENFPs who want to be with an ISTJ. Take it for what it is, bro.

    I don't think I'll get my answer though, I see there's a collective opinion on this board that it's an inherent flaw in the make up of a man that is ISTJ.
    Ummm...nope. My grandfather was an excellent father figure and the rock of my life. He was the most stable person in our family. ISTJ males when healthy make excellent family men.

    BTW I'm not angry or anything, but I swear I haven't seen any compelling reason to why the ENFPs are more likely to feel this way in the relationship. It might be that because we're Is you won't know either
    *sighs* I like introverts. Different people just need different things, that's all. You're getting upset because you're internalizing what we're saying. I've done this before in threads where INTJs were saying ENFPs and INTJs should never be together. Don't do that - don't internalize it. It doesn't mean YOUR relationship won't work - you may end up like my friend and her husband and live happily ever after, or at least the closest you can come to that in reality.

  9. #59
    Nerd King Usurper Edgar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I'm just suggesting that maybe it's not "reality" but cynicism. I've seen you show up seventeen hundred times in a thread where an STJ was one of the partners, and tell the other person not to do it.
    I have always advised against STJ/NF combo, that is very true.

    On the other hand, STJ/SFP combo has a high likelihood of success, in my opinion. It makes sense theoretically and IRL evidence supports it. Also, as I have mentioned many times before, my parents are ISTJ/ESFP, and they have the most stable marriage I've seen.

  10. #60
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    There are no laws of attraction-no formula of what you are supposed to like and not! Men and women ARE different- that's why the attraction is there. Take out MBTI and you find that people are generally attracted to traits that they lack. Not for dependency, but becuse it's 'different'.

    I don't get the maturity thing- I don't consider the trait as childlike. I used the word carefree to compliment the attitude that you don't worry about things as much as I do, which is attractive. A mature person sees that another person's strenghts as opportunity to become a better person themselves.


    Maturity isn't associated with MBTI. Learning to develop your Te/Si or Ne/Fi should be your goal period.

    You still haven't answered the question.
    you dont even really seem to understand what he said. tells alot from istj enfp relationship.

    ps. they are all mine MUAHAUHAUHAUHAU
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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