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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    Don't sleep on Fe now....I'm sure the SFJs got a manner that is probably warmer, but they can be as bad as the Ts.

    I'm actually trying to explore how strong my Ne is. These written tests are garbage, too. How have you figured out where you fall with your Si? I do know my Ne's better than my Fi, if that's allowed. LOL But I'm all about developing both, and I'd love to do it with my love.

    Bottom line: If it's love coming from the right place, the ISTJ can and will deliver. If they can't, they'll die trying.
    I was with an ESFJ for five years, and have known him for ten. I have a pretty close male friend who is ISFJ, and I know they'll have a coniption fit if you can't adhere to order...good thing I like a certain amount of systematic structure and do quite well in a very tidy environment where there are clear boundaries. I believe I have QUITE A BIT of Si for an ENFP, enough to make me think at times I'm INFP.

    But yeah, either you love the structure or you don't and that goes for SFJs as well as STJs. I just think it my case I really respond to their warmth, and their way of explaining an opposing point of view. I recently realized that the ISFJ I know can get me to see both sides of a situation, or see things the way he sees it without pissing me off or pressing my buttons. That's a major feat, bro.

    Then again, sometimes my ESFJ ex and I were likely to kill one another. We either got along like twins or were at each others throats. I can't really say if that has anything to do with type, or just our respective issues...he's got some issues that have nothing to do with MBTI.

  2. #32
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I was with an ESFJ for five years, and have known him for ten. I have a pretty close male friend who is ISFJ, and I know they'll have a coniption fit if you can't adhere to order...good thing I like a certain amount of systematic structure and do quite well in a very tidy environment where there are clear boundaries. I believe I have QUITE A BIT of Si for an ENFP, enough to make me think at times I'm INFP.

    But yeah, either you love the structure or you don't and that goes for SFJs as well as STJs. I just think it my case I really respond to their warmth, and their way of explaining an opposing point of view. I recently realized that the ISFJ I know can get me to see both sides of a situation, or see things the way he sees it without pissing me off or pressing my buttons. That's a major feat, bro.

    Then again, sometimes my ESFJ ex and I were likely to kill one another. We either got along like twins or were at each others throats. I can't really say if that has anything to do with type, or just our respective issues...he's got some issues that have nothing to do with MBTI.
    I work with 2 ESFJs at work, and they are from both extremes. One guy's a little more laid back, I thought he was introverted. I figured out Si quickly (he's relatively new) but his Fe took some time. The other dude is from South america and is so grandiose in everything he does. But he's the giggly, back patting kind of guy (a terror to work for though).

    I appreciate structure- hate too much of it, especially dumb and unnecessary structure. My old boss was like that. He loved to say he hated micromanaging, and would let you do your own thing, but he would take your work and critique it until it becomes his work. Either that or he tried to make it become what he thought his boss wanted. UGGh!!

    I actually like working within a framework where you there is some room for interpretation and guesswork, and doing your own thing- sort of speak. We are actually having a methodology change at work- one from where everything is predictable to something a with a little more abstraction to it. Some people are in panic mode. I love it.

    I prefer really to first get the big picture, then the underlying principles, then the steps to getting the job done. I find I'm more of a thinker than a doer, too.

  3. #33
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    Makes sense. Everyone has their own definition of what that structural framework or system should be, and it's totally a lame stereotype to say all SJs love any kind of structure, or love rules of any kind. That's actually a bunch of bullshit. I mean those people do exist, but I would say it was more a sign of "lack of intelligence" than SJ. My ESFJ ex certainly developed his Ne, and takes real issue with a certain kind of authority, actually. Same with ISFJ I know - not that I know him as well, because I don't - but I see him wanting a certain kind of orderliness, yet at the same time not necessarily being a big fan of other people's rules if he can't see reason or fairness in those rules.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Makes sense. Everyone has their own definition of what that structural framework or system should be, and it's totally a lame stereotype to say all SJs love any kind of structure, or love rules of any kind. That's actually a bunch of bullshit. I mean those people do exist, but I would say it was more a sign of "lack of intelligence" than SJ. My ESFJ ex certainly developed his Ne, and takes real issue with a certain kind of authority, actually. Same with ISFJ I know - not that I know him as well, because I don't - but I see him wanting a certain kind of orderliness, yet at the same time not necessarily being a big fan of other people's rules if he can't see reason or fairness in those rules.
    You are right on that last point....While I ran away from my former boss as fast as I could, this ENFP on my team actually requested him. I'm like . She actually liked his structure.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    The question: As an ENFP, What did you/did not do to hinder a rewarding relationship with someone who is ISTJ?

    It's impossible that the frequent attraction always ends up a one-sided disaster. It takes 2. On this board, ENFPs will trash their relationships with ISTJs and what they did wrong and how they didn't change. But what did the ENFP do/not do to not make it work isn't discussed, as if the person's very being just ruined things.

    The ISTJ/ENFP dynamic is tough, but an any type dynamic is. Really communication period is always a tricky thing, but it's especially tough on that most intimate level.

    I agree with you on the point you make about wanting to be challenged with your partner. That makes for a very dynamic and rewarding relationship.
    ahh, i see. thanks for rephrasing it

    i've never been in a relationship with an ISTJ, but i did meet a good (confirmed) ISTJ friend of mine a few summers ago. we got along almost immediately in a quiet, peaceful way. we have a pleasant sort of understanding, though she was more sharp and responsible than i was when it came to applying oneself to schoolwork and such. excellent to work in groups with, though. based off my experience with her i could easily see having a relationship with an ISTJ.

    one thing i do want to point out is that an ENFP might not talk very much about everything we tried to change in ourselves because we're always changing, if that makes sense. i have a very fluid baseline and i adapt day-by-day, minute-by-minute to whatever my partner's preferences are. i do work hard to try to meet them wherever they're at and will let them take the lead most of the time if they prefer. we're both usually quite happy that way. my personal problems - things i'm doing wrong - often occur in places i just don't even see, especially if my partner is hesitant for whatever reason to open up and share their understanding of things with me. from my end it turns out feeling like i'm always doing things for them, plus they won't open up to me, plus they're being cold to me for some unknown reason, and it's frustrating and confusing. i need to see things through the other person's perspective to understand what i'm doing wrong, so they have to share with me how they're perceiving things for me to be able to make any headway. maybe that sounds like whining and placing blame, but what i'm trying to say is that i can't fix what i'm not aware of. so if i'm not aware... then i might just talk about what they're doing wrong.

    the "structure" thing is a good point as well. depending on how i feel about a person, structure can either make me feel safe or like rebelling as much as possible. ii run like a bat out of hell (and/or attack) if i feel like i'm being pigeonholed and micromanaged, especially if the other person doesn't talk much to me. I and J can be a dangerous combination for interacting with me because of that.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    It's okay to be attracted to "togetherness." That doesn't necessarily scream "dependency issues." Who the hell are you to tell other people what they need from a relationship?
    No one. Don't give my words so much weight. I am after clueless.

    I don't see all relationships as co-dependent. If you had to the ability to be unbiased in your analysis of my posts you'd understand that. I am an ENFP and am speaking from the perspective of an ENFP and what I feel we need. You want me to quote you whenever you say anything general about ENFPs as if they shared your opinion?

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moiety View Post
    No one. Don't give my words so much weight. I am after clueless.

    I don't see all relationships as co-dependent. If you had to the ability to be unbiased in your analysis of my posts you'd understand that. I am an ENFP and am speaking from the perspective of an ENFP and what I feel we need. You want me to quote you whenever you say anything general about ENFPs as if they shared your opinion?
    Dude, you were saying that ENFP females (you are not a female) who like ISTJs all must have dependency issues. So you weren't even speaking for yourself, as an ENFP female. It was just a really nasty and hostile thing to say, and of course I'm going to have a subjective reaction to it, as I am one of those ENFP females who are drawn to the structured, "together" aura of INTJs and SFJs, if not ISTJs. You basically just made a blanket statement that presumed that ENFP females who want to be with someone more structured than they are are sadly lacking an emotional connection with their partners.

    It just made me curious as to why you always seem to be making these posts calling other people co-dependent when we talk about relationships. This has been going on here and there in different threads for months.

  8. #38
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Because most relationships don't last and people prefer to be blissfuly ignorant as to why. I don't interact with people based on MBTI, but I still think MBTI can teach us a thing or two about compatibility in the long run.

    It's up to each person that reads my posts to give a fuck or not. To see merit in what I'm saying or not.

    "You basically just made a blanket statement that presumed that ENFP females who want to be with someone more structured than they are are sadly lacking an emotional connection with their partners. "

    I said, emotional connectedness is what ENFPs really want from a relationship. And I know we can connect emotionally with ANYONE on some level. So if we are in love of course we are gonna feel like it's enough for us. But I have big reservations concerning ENFP and ISTJ compatibility. I'm coming from a logical standpoint. No advice on relationships is ever valid if we are centered on what the two persons are feeling. Not my advice not everyone else's.

    I'm blunt and I don't sugarcoat my opinions. But they are only as valid as they are.

    If i make it a point to make my opinion known on the ISTJ/ENFP pairing, is because threads about its problems come up on the forum...and why as an ENFP I can see very clearly why it wouldn't work. And most ENFPs not currently on a relationship with a ISTJ would probably.

  9. #39
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    Relationships don't last because people are immature and selfish and have unrealistic expectations. Lack of compatibility might have something to do with it, but not as much as people are trying to make it out to be I'm sure. I'd be married to my ESFJ ex right now if he'd decided to go into therapy two years ago instead of two months ago.

    At any rate, I actually don't personally prefer ISTJs as my ideal mate, no, I don't, but in my case it reminds me of my grandfather, who was also my Father Figure growing up ...so yeah..no thank you. I personally connect better with someone whom I either share N or F with, I've found.

    But I don't want to speak for other people, and certain people (like you...and quite frankly, Edgar) seem excessively negative in relationship threads and always have something cynical and pessimistic to say.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    And what's the problem with that? True love conquers all.

    "Relationships don't last because people are immature and selfish and have unrealistic expectations. "

    Yeah, like expecting to live happily ever after with your opposite. And selfish yes, because don't realize you got to live and let live. I sure don't mean the perfect MBTI compatibility grants you the key to eternal happiness as a couple, but SiTe+NeFi is kind of too much. I can't even imagine the sort of conversations a Si-dom and a Ne-dom would have throughout the years. But sure, that's my opinion. I explained why. It's up to the reader to take it or leave it.

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