User Tag List

First 123412 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 135

  1. #11
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Moiety View Post
    Is topic isn't directed at females is it? You said ENFPs, not female ENFPs.

    And, no I don't feel attraction to female ISTJs. But I like ISTJs just fine. My dad is one and so are two of my closest friends. I give shit/love to anyone IZ, not just ISTJs

    And that's ok, if you want to disregard my advice. Just know I'm as ENFP as anybody else.
    Aight man I got you. Can't say I've paid attention to you giving hell to anybody else. But I take what I say back if you are equal opportunity.

  2. #12
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    950

    Default

    Well here's my female ENFP thoughts on the matter:

    #1 - I assume that you're trying to get the skinny from females ENFPs due to obstacles in a current relationship in your life. If this is the case, it wouldn't do much good for me to say that I would probably never date an ISTJ. Not because they are an ISTJ per se. Just because we are on TOTALLY different planets. And, frankly, their planet bugs me. (This isn't personal IZthe411. I'm sure you're a very nice guy. I'm just trying to be honest with you.)

    #2 - But say I found myself in such a relationship... Well the things that would drive me the most crazy would be that for my ISTJ things are just as they are. No imagination. No vision about a changeable future. No... well frankly... no N-ness.

    Also, I would be keenly sensitive to them being terse with me. My best friend in high school was an ISTJ and she made me cry more than once. Her bluntness and her lack of awareness about how what she said would be received by others both hurt and angered me.

    Finally, what would really, really, really drive me nuts would be when the ISTJ would state how things were and then refuse to listen to me when I argued how they were wrong. This goes back to the N/S thing. In other words, my ISTJ friend finds her view of reality to be self-evident. And shame on me for not looking at the facts logically. Ohhhhhhh.... that gets me really hot under the collar.

    So why are you asking these questions, IZthe411?
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  3. #13
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    Well here's my female ENFP thoughts on the matter:

    #1 - I assume that you're trying to get the skinny from females ENFPs due to obstacles in a current relationship in your life. If this is the case, it wouldn't do much good for me to say that I would probably never date an ISTJ. Not because they are an ISTJ per se. Just because we are on TOTALLY different planets. And, frankly, their planet bugs me. (This isn't personal IZthe411. I'm sure you're a very nice guy. I'm just trying to be honest with you.)
    #2 - But say I found myself in such a relationship... Well the things that would drive me the most crazy would be that for my ISTJ things are just as they are. No imagination. No vision about a changeable future. No... well frankly... no N-ness. Also, I would be keenly sensitive to them being terse with me. My best friend in high school was an ISTJ and she made me cry more than once. Her bluntness and her lack of awareness about how what she said would be received by others both hurt and angered me. Finally, what would really, really, really drive me nuts would be when the ISTJ would state how things were and then refuse to listen to me when I argued how they were wrong. This goes back to the N/S thing. In other words, my ISTJ friend finds her view of reality to be self-evident. And shame on me for not looking at the facts logically. Ohhhhhhh.... that gets me really hot under the collar.

    So why are you asking these questions, IZthe411?

    I'm asking not for personal reasons, I've been thinking about it. I think this board really blows things out of proportion, and I think a lot of N users' perception of S users are very skewed to some bad experiences, with some people, and there is a very big assumption that they are SJs, without any confirmation except a few signs that aren't real indicative one type over the other.

    At least you are honest to say that it bugs you- that's personal preference.

    I'm more interested in an honest assessment of steps taken to make it work because you love the person first. My assumption is that the expectation of the effort is one-sided. As if the ISTJ is supposed to change their approach, while the other party doesn't.

  4. #14
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    9w1 sx/so
    Posts
    18,086

    Default

    the effort is an everyday every sec ordeal...without ever truly feeling seen or heard and constantly compromising on things you see no value in.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #15
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    i don't understand the question, can you rephrase?

    i mean, i read all the posts and i'm still not sure i understand what you're asking.

    My assumption is that the expectation of the effort is one-sided. As if the ISTJ is supposed to change their approach, while the other party doesn't.
    why would that be true? i think superficially every person on the planet would like that to be the case, because it requires no effort on our parts, but it's not good for anyone. i'd much rather have a partner who pushes me to be a better person than one who never challenges me.

  6. #16
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    the effort is an everyday every sec ordeal...without ever truly feeling seen or heard and constantly compromising on things you see no value in.
    So would you call your lack of desire a willingness to not adapt?

  7. #17
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i don't understand the question, can you rephrase?

    i mean, i read all the posts and i'm still not sure i understand what you're asking.



    why would that be true? i think superficially every person on the planet would like that to be the case, because it requires no effort on our parts, but it's not good for anyone. i'd much rather have a partner who pushes me to be a better person than one who never challenges me.
    The question: As an ENFP, What did you/did not do to hinder a rewarding relationship with someone who is ISTJ?

    It's impossible that the frequent attraction always ends up a one-sided disaster. It takes 2. On this board, ENFPs will trash their relationships with ISTJs and what they did wrong and how they didn't change. But what did the ENFP do/not do to not make it work isn't discussed, as if the person's very being just ruined things.

    The ISTJ/ENFP dynamic is tough, but an any type dynamic is. Really communication period is always a tricky thing, but it's especially tough on that most intimate level.

    I agree with you on the point you make about wanting to be challenged with your partner. That makes for a very dynamic and rewarding relationship.

  8. #18
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    See this an example of where the S automatically gets the bad trait, where an N gets the better, when both of them are Te/Fi...and both are prone to act the same in a Te/Fi manner, and where I see an N bias in the dynamic.

    INTJs don't force- it's not their nature. If anything an INTJ will be indifferent, where an ISTJ will be bothered. Neither will say much of anything until it become a big deal.

    A relationship can work if both parties are honest about self and the person they're with.

    I rarely see ISTJs complain aobut the ENFPs. We're more likely to want to work it out.
    Oh no my dear, I am not bashing the S at all. To be frank (if the INTJ isn't looking... ) I find ISTJs much easier than INTJs to interact with on a daily basis due to the shared Si/Ne. With my INTJ, by moving the relationship into a deeper realm, there has been significant work to try and understand how we each see the world with some occasional roadbumps as we discover then rediscover each other again. It is a fun dance.

    But make no mistake, INTJs drive others around them to improve. ISTJs lead with Si, thus the goal, as I have read is to mold the world around them into what their Si view is. Typically this Si view is somewhat traditional and involves minimizing change. The INTJs actually are polar opposite in that they have an Ni vision of the way the world could be-and then drive everyone around them through critique to make that worldview true. My INTJ is particularly wonderful with lots of Fi, but many INTJs can be harsh critics and perfectionists and have a hard time being surrounded by those who choose not to self improve. Even the routine typology websites say this about INTJs-they turn their mates into self improvement projects.

    I went to lunch with my entp married to an ISTJ and inquired in more depth and she said her ISTJ family members will try to hold others to their Si standards, but eventually they recognize others will fail and instead of driving them-they will accept them-likely the Ne extroverted flexibility there as opposed to the INTJ's Se which must be like the Ni vision I guess.

    But honestly I utterly adore my ISTJ friends and if not happily emo over an INTJ would just as quickly date an ISTJ. I'd just be aware the dynamics will differ some and adapt as needed. I got my favorite ISTJ to admit he daydreams about unicorns and rainforrests during QA meetings. Not sure if he was lying or not, but it was very funny!

    (Sorry, I dont know about your relationship history but you do seem quite adorable and funny!! Hugs!)

  9. #19
    Tempbanned
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/so
    Posts
    8,162

    Default

    IZ, not to hark too much on a point that is already harked upon enough on this forum, but I think you're somewhat downplaying the S vs. N divide.

    I say so as an INTJ whose two most significant romantic relationships have been with an ESFP and an ENFP.

    Also, my dad is an ISTJ, and I have a significant fondness for most ISTJs I know (I'm not quite sure whether I think ENTJs or ISTJs are most similar to INTJs).

    I went out with the ESFP for several years in my early-to-mid 20s, and had been close friends with her for five years before we ever hooked up, and the biggest obstacle to our communication -- and we all know how important communication is in a relationship -- was the N vs S divide. I didn't know this at the time, but I do now. I literally told her at one point: look, I love you, but I need someone who's more into intellectual pursuits, someone who has an interest in either high literature or philosophy. We kept going out for a long while after that conversation, and she did develop an interest in literature and philosophy (obviously partially for my sake, but she tells me that the interest still continues today), but, the truth is, I communicate in a very abstract manner, and she communicates in a very concrete manner. She used to listen to me go off on some abstract topic, and, when I'd finish, she'd kinda just look at me lost and say, "I love listening to you speak, but you totally lost me like five minutes ago." I loved her EFPness, but the S vs. N divide was definitely there.

    Now I've been with an ENFP for almost a year, and there absolutely is no such problem. We're able to have awesome abstract conversations, and I feel like she's able to keep up with me more than most anybody I've ever known my entire life.

    Now, that's not to say that there aren't pros to the ESFP relationship, and cons to the ENFP relationship, just as there would be pros to an ISTJ-ENFP relationship and cons to an ISTJ-ESFP relationship, and its up to the partners in those relationship to weigh whether the pros and cons of one outweigh the pros and cons of the other, but I do think that the N vs. S communication divide is an almost ever-present issue in INTJ-ESFP and ISTJ-ENFP relationships, as communication is so central to relationships, and thus the ITJ-EFP dynamic will tend to work better when each partner shares a preferred style of perceiving the world...

    Sorry if this doesn't exactly fit the question you were asking, but, considering its highly related to the topic of ISTJ-ENFP relationships, I figured it would still be relevant.

  10. #20
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Posts
    2,591

    Default

    Alright Z and Orobas, thanks for your input.
    .....................

    So how do you explain my desire to improve and to be improved by those around me, wanting both and still be an ISTJ? I'm not one to force people into my perspective. I welcome different perspectives, with neither having to hold your view as gospel, but look for a way to make things work. I will say that I need to feel trust that the person has my best interests, and that's by action more than it is just saying it.

    Let me ask this then....if your ISTJ (or S, whatever) can keep up and follow where you are going, but maybe that's just not their mode of communication- what does that mean to you? Like they can understand Your French but their preference is to speak German or something like that. While I fit the ISTJ stereotype more than I do INTJ- I see strong similarities. I just don't feel like the barrier between me and you is so different that I couldn't make a relationship work with a person. I've NEVER had the problem.

    I'm feeling this youngbuck- this ENXJ chick I know too. If she wasn't only 21..........She's definitely abstract but we get along so well- and she's gorgeous. I wish she had a clone at least 6 years older.

Similar Threads

  1. [ISTJ] NEED ADVICE PLEASE!! ESPECIALLY FROM AN ISTJ WOMAN!!
    By notgivingupjustyet in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 11-10-2016, 04:35 PM
  2. Greetings from an ISTJ
    By Patches in forum Welcomes and Introductions
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 07-17-2013, 02:16 PM
  3. [ISTJ] Thoughts From An ISTJ
    By FallaciaSonata in forum The SJ Guardhouse (ESFJ, ISFJ, ESTJ, ISTJ)
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-11-2009, 09:53 PM
  4. [ENTJ] Questions from an ENTJ
    By DiscoBiscuit in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 04-26-2009, 01:46 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO