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  1. #121
    Senior Member tkae.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    but you're using some classic definition of extravert that i and other enfps don't really relate to....some of us are in our heads in fantasy land just as much as you infp people...we just might blurt out those absurdities more often...and engaging with others doesn't really mean we're planted in the here and now...if most of the time were discussing the abstract or nonsensical...does it?
    It's not that complicated a definition.

    The I/E is the easiest part of the entire MBTI to type.

    If you spend a lot of time around people and get energy from it, you're an extrovert.

    If you spend a lot of time by yourself and get energy from it, you're an introvert.

    There's no need to overcomplicate the definition.

    There's no mystical magical secret to the difference between ENFPs and INFPs. It's just that ENFPs spend more time around people and get their energy from it, and INFPs don't like being around and need more time alone.

    There's a girl in one of my classes who I thought had to be an INFP because she was quiet and unassuming. And as I got to know her I went to her dorm to hang out during a writer's conference, and couldn't believe she'd turn down a single-bedroom apartment to be in an apartment with two other girls. To me, that's pure hell because I'd hate to have that much social interaction in my "house".

    I later come to find out that this quiet, unassuming girl is actually an ENFP.

    The only difference between us?

    She gets her energy being around people (one of her reasons for taking the three bedroom over the single), and I get mine being alone.

    There's no other difference whatsoever. Anything else different evolves out of our adaptations to the situations that these personality differences bring into our lives. There's no root difference other than that. It's just that the social nature of an ENFP manipulates their MBTI to be slightly different than ours, which is evolved out of our introverted nature.

    Don't overcomplicate it. It doesn't mean you're any different than us. It just means you have more social experience and a more social element to your personality than ours, which actually loses energy in social situations where yours happens to be fueled by it.

    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I agree with lady x and the definition of enfp extrovert - I'm more extroverted through being expressive or enthusiastic than I am truly extroverted in the classic sense
    See above.

    There's no fundamental difference other than where our energy comes from.

    In fact, in that same class, there was a girl who was much more confident when she spoke, and if she hadn't told me then I'd never have guessed she was an INFP. I'd have guessed her an ENFP over the ENFP that I thought was an INFP. The only way I could have possibly been able to tell is to have spent hours with her and see if I could notice a difference in her energy levels. If she got more energized, she was an E. If she got drained, she was an I.

    No other difference.
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  2. #122
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkae.
    The I/E is the easiest part of the entire MBTI to type.
    perhaps for some... but it's very hard to figure out if you "gain energy around people" if you also have a certain degree of social anxiety, which many ENFPs seem to, including myself. that makes things much less clear-cut.

    personally, i go through bouts of intense people interaction followed by bouts of near-hermitage. my favorite social situation is to be at a large event, but mostly interacting just with a small group of close friends, or just with my SO. i also crash once a social situation is over, but if i stay at the event i'll keep revving up. i used to think that i was crashing because i was so tired from people-interaction, and that i just kept interacting at the event because i didn't want to let anyone down. only recently did i make the connection that the i crash because the external stimulation is gone, which allows all of my previously-withheld internal anxieties to surface. even my best friend thought i was an introvert who just got kind of open sometimes.

    so, being an E was a very complex thing for me to understand. it took years. whereas the N, F, and P have been very obvious from the get-go.

    anyway --
    i see what you mean about being more "experienced" but i don't know if that really makes us any wiser. personally i've been in a rather small amount of relationships given my age. i think the experience is only going to apply if the realm is something we've actually dived into. if not, then we don't have any leg up - perhaps we're even at a disadvantage because we're not as secure in ourselves.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkae. View Post
    I didn't pick the word, I just repeated it.

    What word would you suggest?
    I wasn't talking about the word... I was talking about the concept...

    In other words, your premise that extroverts are better at learning from their mistakes is ridiculous.

  4. #124
    Cheeseburgers freeeekyyy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I wasn't talking about the word... I was talking about the concept...

    In other words, your premise that extroverts are better at learning from their mistakes is ridiculous.
    I don't think that's what she was saying. She was saying that extroverts generally have more experiences to learn from, not that they're better at learning. The result is basically the same though.
    You lose.

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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    perhaps for some... but it's very hard to figure out if you "gain energy around people" if you also have a certain degree of social anxiety, which many ENFPs seem to, including myself. that makes things much less clear-cut.

    personally, i go through bouts of intense people interaction followed by bouts of near-hermitage. my favorite social situation is to be at a large event, but mostly interacting just with a small group of close friends, or just with my SO. i also crash once a social situation is over, but if i stay at the event i'll keep revving up. i used to think that i was crashing because i was so tired from people-interaction, and that i just kept interacting at the event because i didn't want to let anyone down. only recently did i make the connection that the i crash because the external stimulation is gone, which allows all of my previously-withheld internal anxieties to surface. even my best friend thought i was an introvert who just got kind of open sometimes.

    so, being an E was a very complex thing for me to understand. it took years. whereas the N, F, and P have been very obvious from the get-go.

    anyway -- i see what you mean about being more "experienced" but i don't know if that really makes us any wiser. personally i've been in a rather small amount of relationships given my age.
    Yup. It's so frustrating when people who are extreme introverts are like "Oh I/E is the easiest part of MBTI." It's like ORLY? For me it was the hardest, and I hear that from so many ENFPs.

    Then again, comparing Keirsey to function theory also makes things frustrating. In Keirsey temperament I am CLEARLY an NFJ. In function theory I am CLEARLY an FP.

  6. #126
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkae. View Post
    It's not that complicated a definition.

    The I/E is the easiest part of the entire MBTI to type.

    If you spend a lot of time around people and get energy from it, you're an extrovert.

    If you spend a lot of time by yourself and get energy from it, you're an introvert.

    There's no need to overcomplicate the definition.

    There's no mystical magical secret to the difference between ENFPs and INFPs. It's just that ENFPs spend more time around people and get their energy from it, and INFPs don't like being around and need more time alone.

    There's a girl in one of my classes who I thought had to be an INFP because she was quiet and unassuming. And as I got to know her I went to her dorm to hang out during a writer's conference, and couldn't believe she'd turn down a single-bedroom apartment to be in an apartment with two other girls. To me, that's pure hell because I'd hate to have that much social interaction in my "house".

    I later come to find out that this quiet, unassuming girl is actually an ENFP.

    The only difference between us?

    She gets her energy being around people (one of her reasons for taking the three bedroom over the single), and I get mine being alone.

    There's no other difference whatsoever. Anything else different evolves out of our adaptations to the situations that these personality differences bring into our lives. There's no root difference other than that. It's just that the social nature of an ENFP manipulates their MBTI to be slightly different than ours, which is evolved out of our introverted nature.

    Don't overcomplicate it. It doesn't mean you're any different than us. It just means you have more social experience and a more social element to your personality than ours, which actually loses energy in social situations where yours happens to be fueled by it.



    See above.

    There's no fundamental difference other than where our energy comes from.

    In fact, in that same class, there was a girl who was much more confident when she spoke, and if she hadn't told me then I'd never have guessed she was an INFP. I'd have guessed her an ENFP over the ENFP that I thought was an INFP. The only way I could have possibly been able to tell is to have spent hours with her and see if I could notice a difference in her energy levels. If she got more energized, she was an E. If she got drained, she was an I.

    No other difference.


    Introversion vs Extroversion is easier for some to identify, harder for others. I have tried to type people who I knew was obviously xxxJ and others who I knew was XXFX but everything else was harder to pinpoint. No letter is the easiest to pinpoint. Especially for ENFPs, their extroversion is different from the norm. To me, it seems ENFPs are energized by interactions that stimulates them for Ne or Fi reasons. If the conversation does not hold their interest, their mind wanders off and they get tired sitting there trying really hard to say the right thing but cannot because the conversation simply does not intrigue them. And let's say conversations with most people doesn't tap into those Ne/Fi wells for them, so it seems they are introverts when they just need a company more suitable for them, their communication styles and their interests and passions.

    Ne-Fi-Te-Si vs Fi-Ne-Si-Te are different, in slight fundamental ways because of the arrangement of functions. It's not simply just infps are more quiet and enfps are more sociable for everyone. For some people, sure, it's really that simple. That one is obviously an introvert and that one is obviously an extrovert. But for others, it's harder. And that is true for every letter.

  7. #127
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    actually E/I is the hardest letter to figure out because it's a spectrum and not one or the other.
    for instance, let's use ENFP as an example

    ENFP or ESFP: ENFP will have dominant Extraverted Intuition an ESFP will have dominant Extraverted Sensing
    ENFP or ENTP: an ENFP will have Introverted Feeling and Extraverted Thinking. an ENTP will have Introverted Thinking and Extraverted Feeling
    ENFP or ENFJ: they will share NONE of their first 4 functions.
    so you see, which ever one you are will be very clear and objective if you have a good understanding of the cognitive functions

    however, with ENFP/INFP: an INFP with strong Ne and/or Te can easily be mistaken for ENFP and an ENFP (especially a more relaxed, intellectual ENFP) with strong Fi and/or Si can be mistaken for INFP. ENFPs and INFPs share all of the same core functions which is why E/I is the hardest to figure out. this is especially true with NF types. for a number of reasons
    INFPs like to talk a lot and have deep conversation and are usually extremely assertive when they don't like something
    ENFPs are very deep and intellectual and enjoy (and need) large amounts of time alone to process things
    ENFJs are extremely visionary and need time alone to plan and clarify their vision for whatever task they are undertaking
    INFJs care deeply about people and go out of their way to make people feel welcome and comfortable
    ENFs can be very spiritual and deep and can be extremely independent
    INFs can be very strong and passionate and have energy and charisma rivaling the most gregarious extraverts

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    so you see, which ever one you are will be very clear and objective if you have a good understanding of the cognitive functions
    That's awfully presumptuous about the veracity of the dominant model.

  9. #129
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    I find people in the abstract to be very beautiful and I like to do things to help them. However interacting with people for more than a few hours is VERY draining and exhausting. I regain energy in isolation by spending time alone.

    However I am an Ne dom.

    So, I really have no conclusion to offer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Petra Pan View Post
    am I the only one unsure do I learn from my mistakes?! Does this automatically mean I dont?
    Quote Originally Posted by IZthe411 View Post
    I'd like some discussion on that too, from the ENFP perspective.
    Learning from past mistakes. Well this will be somewhat oversimplifying.

    Here is how I make a practical Te decision:
    brain: Hmm, I need to get a car loan..
    TeSi: dont get a high interest rate, dont get do tote the note as it doesnt go on your credit, dont listen to them talk about monthly payments, do pay attention to APR not flat interest, do go look at consumer reports, do take the car into a mechanic then take the car back and offer them a flat discount based upon estimated repairs, do look into a bank loan rather than a dealership loan, do not buy on impulse, do buy the plain car rather than the nicer car as nobody wants it and it will be cheaper.....and so on and so on....all this stuff just runs through my brain as soon as I start down the "buy a car" thought process. All of these things are lessons I learned from my past and by watching other people do stupid things when buying cars.

    (Note: TeSi can learn by watching other people do stupid things.)

    NeTe: I could buy a car in the paper, from carmax, from a delearship, from an individual, not buy a car. Maybe I could take the bus, walk, ride a bike, ride a camel, buy a helicopter, cross the desert and eat dates for lunch and drink mare's milk....I wonder if mare's milk tastes good....BACK on track...I could get a car, a minivan, maybe a dark car rather then a red car....

    TeSi: The car should have a latch system for the carseat.

    NeTe: well I suppose a bike could have a latch system

    TeSi: WHAT? Quit being stupid and focus. Wait I thought this was about actually getting a car loan and you seemed to have gravitated towards mare's milk in the desert...How do we get anything done??? *wrings hangs to the heavens*

    Making an emotional decision:

    NeFi: I like a boy on the other side of the world.
    TeSi: That is ridiculously stupid. Cant you see how that works in movies and for other people? That is destined to Fail.
    NeFi: WHEEEEEE!!!!!!! He is cute.
    TeSi: This is a very bad idea.
    NeFi: *leaps off cliff* dragging poor Te behind it

    (Note: emotional decisions must be learned through experience-I cant watch others do it, then learn. I am compelled to go through the motions myself.)

    Later on:
    NeFi: PAAAAAIIINNNNN, boys on the other side of the planet are all EVIL.
    FiSi:*diligently transcribes that boys on the other side of the planet are all evil

    Much later on:

    Random Boy: I am from the other side of the planet
    FiSi: You are EVIL!!!!! Te bitchslap o' doom.

    and thus another Fi value was born.....These Fi lessons are agonizing and feel etched upon my soul. They tend to be somewhat generalistic and thus very hard not to respond in an Fi-defensive manner.

  10. #130
    Carerra Lu IZthe411's Avatar
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    ^ HIlarious

    I'm at work now; I'll come back with a response.

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