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  1. #11
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saffron View Post
    ...
    it's about 2 people who happen to be 2 different types.
    ....
    If it makes you feel any better, most marriages are like that.
    I wish you and your husband good success.

  2. #12
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gretch View Post
    I'm an ENFP and I'm married to an INTP. I know that that is not *exactly* the same but we run into some of the same problems. My husband hates doing things he doesn't need to do. I want someone to come to me because they want to. what used to happen was I'd never communicate with him my needs in plain terms because it 'ruined the magic' if I told him to come to me. I learned later on that he was excited and enthusiastic about coming to me when I asked for it.
    Bottom line is that your husband is more likely than not very attached and comfortable with you. That seems to be the way with most INT's is that they don't put themselves out there. But they don't like putting themselves out there on a daily level, it goes against their NT stoicism sensibilities. Just remember to play the "I'm your wife and I need you in my laboratory every once in a while in order to be happy" card now and then. But be careful not to confuse their stoicism with disinterest. Think Mr. Darcy. Strong and stoic, but it's only a fault in that it creates misunderstandings. Ah, I need to watch that today...
    So shake him up a little and remind him that when you're dead and gone he's going to miss that about you.
    These are two biggies when dealing with INTs, IMO. I don't know how things work with INTJs, but my INTP spouse can be really oblivious. He loves me deeply, but he is not going to figure out what I want and need without my spelling it out for him. For us that means me asking for what I want in a very point blank way. Humor is effective, but drama usually is not. They are highly autonomous people and it's easy for them to feel manipulated and refuse to play along just on principle if you use a lot of emotion when you approach them about something.

    Safron, if you are spelling things out for your spouse and he's not willing to compromise and meet your needs, he's not playing fair. I'm not sure what to do about it, though. Sometimes withdrawing a bit and pursuing your own interests so he will have the opportunity to miss you can work, but that can take awhile for a very introverted person.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  3. #13
    Senior Member gretch's Avatar
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    I'm an ENFP and I'm married to an INTP. I know that that is not *exactly* the same but we run into some of the same problems. My husband hates doing things he doesn't need to do. I want someone to come to me because they want to. what used to happen was I'd never communicate with him my needs in plain terms because it 'ruined the magic' if I told him to come to me. I learned later on that he was excited and enthusiastic about coming to me when I asked for it.
    Bottom line is that your husband is more likely than not very attached and comfortable with you. That seems to be the way with most INT's is that they don't put themselves out there. But they don't like putting themselves out there on a daily level for you, it goes against their NT stoicism and efficiency sensibilities. "I said I love you last month. It still stands today." And they think that that makes the llove stronger and truer, because why say it over and over? Their words stand alone. Play the "I'm your wife and I need you in my laboratory every once in a while in order to be happy" card now and then. But be careful not to confuse their stoicism with disinterest. Think Mr. Darcy. Strong and stoic, but it's only a fault in that it creates misunderstandings. If he's not as 'into' your world, that's because he doesn't fully understand the importance of him being in your world. Us NF's *love* romance. We *love* everything romantic, we yearn for it. If our mate NT isn't willing to give it to us, it's like us taking away their laboratory, and their think time. We NEED it. He will appreciate your logic in the situation. Say if I don't get it from you I'm afraid I'm going to look for it in other places (Which may or may not be true), but we need romance as sure as we need air. Say "wouldn't it be more efficient for you to tend to my needs in this matter." then and *don't* forget this part! Then you must recognize the efforts he's already put in place. " I realize that you have noticed my need for this in such and such way. And I appreciate that, but I also need a sense of newness." If you tell him what you need, he can't logically refute that. You need it! And if he dismisses it, tell him that he's being foolish. Stand by your need.

    I always make a joke that in the family I grew up in you looked out for the needs of others, were responsible for their feelings etc, and they would 'look out for your needs". It was a very dysfunctional way of living, because you always held others responsible for your happiness and more than that they held you responsible for theirs, and theirs was always way more valid than yours. I think one of the hardest and most wonderful invigorating things I've learned from Mike is that he is responsible for his feelings and desires and he demands that I am responsible for mine. So in the beginning I was taking care of Mike's feelings and he was taking care of his feelings. And I thought he was a selfish piece of crap! Now I take care of my needs and he takes care of his. It's not the romance I envisioned, but NT's are usually right (haha!) and I appreciate that about them. I now enjoy a level of personal autonomy that I had not known previously, and that's romance to me.
    ***also***
    I used to be so worried about his grumbling when he came along. But I made up my mind to thoroughly enjoy myself then thank him afterwards for his part in it. I found that this not only made him realize (Verifiable proof!!) that this sort activity was indeed valuable, but necessary. If you make him do something, then whine the whole time, then in his mind what real purpose does it serve to go with you in the first place to something that doesn't ultimately make you happy? Remember efficiency!!!! The happier I am the more he's into me (apparently that's one of the things that attracted him to me in the first place, all that ENFP-ness.)


    Anyway... Sorry for being long winded. That statement seems pretty well organized, but it might not be... i jump from thing to thing so much I tried desperately to keep it in the same sphere. Any ENFP married to a INT will recognize those sorts of things I'm talking about though.
    So shake him up a little and remind him that when you're dead and gone he's going to miss that about you.

    Also for literature on rationals, I recommend Please Understand me II. I feel that it explains the rationals sensibilities to a T. Though I enjoy other books to explain other types, I think that Keirsy, being an INTP really has rationals pinpointed.
    A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is visible labour and there is invisible labour.
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    -Victor Hugo

  4. #14
    Senior Member INTJMom's Avatar
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    I agree with those who recommend just coming right out and spelling out exactly what you want.

    I am horrible at taking hints.

  5. #15
    unscannable Tigerlily's Avatar
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    I haven't read all through this thread in it's entirety but I'll throw my opinion in here if you don't mind since I am married to an INTJ and I am thought to be INFJ or ENFJ.

    I agree with what Cafe said. You have to tell them exactly what you want and no mind games. It took me 5 years to figure this one out (married now almost 10). I like that we can do separate things and still be very much connected. Now I don't mean take separate vacations, but he can be elsewhere in the house and I am not bothered by that at all. I like my space and he likes his but no matter where I am at I am always thinking of him. You also won't get anywhere by being emotional. I learned that the hard way too. When I am emotional he kind of laughs and writes it off as cute which can be frustrating so I just don't bother anymore.

    We never argue simply because he won't engage in arguments. He is very patient and level headed and great to have around in the event a crisis were to occur (among other things!). His opinion on things matter greatly to me. I value and trust his judgment. He also has an excellent sense of humor which is a must for me.

    IMO they are wonderful and very loyal mates. I really was looking for one all my life but just didn't realize it when I lucked out and found the one I have now.

    PS And Cafe you are right. L makes me very happy.
    Last edited by Tigerlily; 01-31-2008 at 08:50 PM. Reason: spelling
    Time is a delicate mistress.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jen View Post
    He also has an excellent sense of humor which is a must for me.....IMO they are wonderful and very loyal mates.
    I agree with you! The INTJs that I know have such wonderful senses of humor...and they are extremely loyal too.

  7. #17
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    Ok... I'll try this again...

    Hello Cafe and Gretch

    I agree with you on every single point except when Gretch said that NT's were always right, I know you are joking but ... ugh!!!

    And yes, Please understand me is my bible, it has saved my sanity.

    I also very much recommend Stephen Montgomery's Pygmalion series - especially the idealist one, ofcourse.

    Does anyone know why he hasn't written the rational one? He was supposed to.... maybe they're too difficult. maybe i'll start a separate thread/search on this one because i'd really, really love to read it.

    saffron

  8. #18
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    hello again, INTJmom and Armstrong and Hello Jen...

    first of all maybe it really helps in your relationships that you are both J's... in mine it doesn't because i'm a strong p and he's a strong j.... this is not a balance thing but an oil and water thing ... they don't mix ... at least in my case.

    and I don't see the sense of humor unless he's watching television.

    He thinks that laughter and feelings are for weak minded people.

    I'm so glad that i'm getting more information on how many kinds of INTJ's there are though, it's very, very interesting.

    saffron.

  9. #19
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    this message board is wierd... there was a reply to cafe and gretch posted that only showed up as the first sentence. I had to repost. Now it's gone. Is this message board edited? it's great to get rid of clutter but i'm confused.

    saffron

  10. #20
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by saffron View Post
    this message board is wierd... there was a reply to cafe and gretch posted that only showed up as the first sentence. I had to repost. Now it's gone. Is this message board edited? it's great to get rid of clutter but i'm confused.

    saffron
    I don't know what caused your post to get cut off, but I removed that post after you reposted it because it was a duplicate post. I can bring it back if you like.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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