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  1. #11
    Senior Member Onceajoan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nijntje View Post
    Guilt plays a huge role in people pleasing for me. But like i said, my upbringing and parental issues play hugely into my desire to please, rather than my "type". Guilt was wielded like a sword in my household growing up, it was also an abusive and dangerous place to be in, so you learn that if you please people you''re less likely to incur someone's wrath.
    Got it. That really helps me understand. I grew up in a similar household. However, I think rather than being a "people pleaser" I became a perfectionist. Although some would argue that perfectionism is a form of people pleasing.

    It makes me wonder if people pleasing is a way of maintaining control.

  2. #12
    Warflower Nijntje's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Onceajoan View Post
    Got it. That really helps me understand. I grew up in a similar household. However, I think rather than being a "people pleaser" I became a perfectionist. Although some would argue that perfectionism is a form of people pleasing.

    It makes me wonder if people pleasing is a way of maintaining control.
    Without a doubt, I remember being terrified to bring home any grade under a Distinction, through highschool, then when i realised i couldn't be prefect all the time it shifted to more of an amicable people pleasing type stance. Thankfully now that i'm older i don't do it as much, but it's a conscious effort NOT to try and put others first.

    Terrible things happen to good people every day.
    Consequentially, I am not one of the good people.
    I am one of the terrible things.
    .



    Conclusion: Dinosaurs


  3. #13
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    No, I don't relate to this. It's not that I am not interested in or concerned about others, but I tend to be more focused on fulfilling a sense of right than serving people. That may include being kind, helpful, or compassionate to others, but the people in themselves are almost just symbolic to me. I did not even develop this "nice" side until my late teens; prior to that I was more concerned with my own identity, self-expression, creativity, and the world of ideas. Not until these began to include a more empathetic spirit did I really feel moved to be more accommodating to others.

    I have a VERY easy time saying "No". I've never been a doormat. It surprised me when I first joined these MBTI communities to see these stereotypes about INFPs, as I just don't see myself in them.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #14
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    I honestly thought that was more of an FJ thing, like people-management, Fe going with the feelings of others.

    When I was a child I really wanted adult approval, I was almost more like an ISFJ child or something, or at least I think I behaved more INFP than ENFP as a child. Even now as an adult I will behave a certain way around elderly people, or avoid certain people just to keep the peace...IRL.

    But I don't think it's in the NFP nature, as a generalization, to try to please others, unless they strongly love those others. I can go out of my way to please someone I love, but that's a person I love, not just random people.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Eckhart's Avatar
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    No, I cannot relate either. As I wrote in the other thread, if I know I can and want to help (and my help is asked for), then I like to do it, but I have no problems insisting on a "No" if it is not like that.

  6. #16
    Senior Member capslock's Avatar
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    I like to help people and I'm good at it. But this is not a general thing for me, it applies only to certain situations and people. There must be a real need and honest / good intention, in whoever/for whatever the help may concern. I have no problem saying no or turning down help to dishonest, arrogant, ignorant and/or lazy people. I see right through them and I never help them.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    I think the reason many INFP's are split on this comes down to the Enneagram flavor of the INFP, primarily e9 and e4. INFP e4's have a sharper and more independent edge to them, in contrast to the "pillowy" energy of their e9 brethren. Hopefully this next paragraph won't be too convoluted:

    In Psychological Types, Jung talks about how some Fi-doms, as a defence mechanism to keep the subjective values above the object, sort of tamp down the highs/lows of feeling elicited by the object, resulting in a numbing effect. I wish I had the quote, he explains it more clearly, but the book is not handy at the moment. Anyway, this is reminiscent of how e9's try to soothe and blunt the impact of the outside world to maintain their inner peace and sense of harmony. However, e4 Fi-doms would be more likely to internally intensify their feelings and values so they outweigh the object's importance. Both INFP's are trying to maintain the subject's dominance, but they are just approaching it differently. One is reducing the external (e9) and one is increasing the internal (e4). Either way, it is in the name of Fi.

    I think e9 INFP's are usually the doormats we hear about.

  8. #18
    Probably Most Brilliant Craft's Avatar
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    I have it so I'm thinking it has more to do with values than type.

  9. #19
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Forever_Jung View Post
    I think the reason many INFP's are split on this comes down to the Enneagram flavor of the INFP, primarily e9 and e4. INFP e4's have a sharper and more independent edge to them, in contrast to the "pillowy" energy of their e9 brethren. Hopefully this next paragraph won't be too convoluted:

    In Psychological Types, Jung talks about how some Fi-doms, as a defence mechanism to keep the subjective values above the object, sort of tamp down the highs/lows of feeling elicited by the object, resulting in a numbing effect. I wish I had the quote, he explains it more clearly, but the book is not handy at the moment. Anyway, this is reminiscent of how e9's try to soothe and blunt the impact of the outside world to maintain their inner peace and sense of harmony. However, e4 Fi-doms would be more likely to internally intensify their feelings and values so they outweigh the object's importance. Both INFP's are trying to maintain the subject's dominance, but they are just approaching it differently. One is reducing the external (e9) and one is increasing the internal (e4). Either way, it is in the name of Fi.

    I think e9 INFP's are usually the doormats we hear about.
    I agree that e9's are more likely to want to please more consistently than some other INFPs, but I think values also play a role (as Craft was stating). INFPs take their values very seriously, and sometimes internalize values that other types shrug off as unrealistic or too burdensome. So, for those INFPs (those raised in religious environments, for example) the values of "putting the needs of others first" and "avoiding selfishness" can play a big role in motivations. This aspect is, I think, separate from enneagram type.

    Also, I agree that since Fi's internal emotional barometer can be disturbed by surrounding upset, there is some natural baseline "helpfulness" which is just minimizing the amount of external drama (regardless of e-type). This baseline level of helpfulness is only engaged when the cost of helping is relatively low and not conflicting with other principles.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Forever_Jung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    I agree that e9's are more likely to want to please more consistently than some other INFPs, but I think values also play a role (as Craft was stating). INFPs take their values very seriously, and sometimes internalize values that other types shrug off as unrealistic or too burdensome. So, for those INFPs (those raised in religious environments, for example) the values of "putting the needs of others first" and "avoiding selfishness" can play a big role in motivations. This aspect is, I think, separate from enneagram type.

    Also, I agree that since Fi's internal emotional barometer can be disturbed by surrounding upset, there is some natural baseline "helpfulness" which is just minimizing the amount of external drama (regardless of e-type). This baseline level of helpfulness is only engaged when the cost of helping is relatively low and not conflicting with other principles.
    Well I agree values is where it's at, but I don't think that excludes the enneagram. e9's values are much different than e4's. 9's (often religious) try very hard not to be selfish and value others needs above their own. 9's repress their sense of self, meanwhile 4's amplify and overvalue theirs. That kind of ties in to what I was saying in the previous post. Don't get me wrong, 4's are caring and all, but if something isn't okay with them internally, they will never surrender their wholeness for it. Meanwhile 9's put everything else first, so the internal can be left alone and be whole.

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