User Tag List

First 678910 Last

Results 71 to 80 of 91

  1. #71
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,134

    Default

    To the last bit - exactly! When I say "Have a great day!" and someone says, "See you later", I'm likely to notice the difference in temperature and recalibrate what my perception of our relationship to each other is.

    It's not that every time I'm deeply immersed in the possibility of how they really, really are doing, even though I do care and would be open to hearing. If they respond differently than usual though, I would notice and probably ask a little more. I think that might be seen as invasive, depending on whether the person wanted to talk or not, but it is my way of showing that I actually do care and that it wouldn't be a burden to me to hear if things weren't going swimmingly.

  2. #72
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,134

    Default

    re stalemate and Orobas on believing Te ideas

    Again this has to do with whether we consider the source credible or not. It's not just that you are expressing your ideas in a confident way, although that is part of it. It's that our rigorousness tends to happen in evaulating the source and less so in evaluating individual pieces of information (particularly if they are expressed convincingly as a sure thing).

  3. #73
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    Fidelia what really worries me is that the closer I am to the person in question-the less they question my ideas....I actually dont anticipate this-thus I find I am actually having to stop sharing early with my new ENTP boss who is a very good friend. He will take in the idea too readily without deep questioning of the thought.

  4. #74
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w6
    Posts
    1,438

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by StarryKnights View Post
    I may sincerely care about the majority of human beings on this planet, nevertheless, I have never learned how to do the 'have a nice day' thing - as I don't want to! One of the most insulting things to me is when people are asking me stuff like 'how was your weekend?'...and you know they don't care...aren't going to listen...don't give a flying crap. Is it Fi when you secretly desire to say 'why the bleep, bleep are you asking me when you don't even give a flying crap?'

    I refuse to say anything in that regard if I don't feel it in my gut. No one will hear from me...'how was your weekend' unless I 100% care to know.
    Yeah, I've been thinking about it some more and I should clarify. It isn't that I necessarily don't care, but expressing it in this small talky kind of way seems kind of pointless to me. If I want to know how someone is, trying to squeeze in the conversation during 3 floors of an elevator ride just isn't going to get it done. I do play along somewhat but I do it in my own way.

    But I will go seek someone out just to have a conversation about how they are. Just yesterday I walked into a coworkers office and I said "Hey man, are you ok, just generally speaking?" He pushed away from his desk and just kind of gave me this quizzical look and I said "You seem frazzled this week." (He is either INFP or INTP and he had been wielding Te as a weapon for 2 straight days). He was shocked that I had picked up on it so easily and he explained that very much multitasking stresses him out. Then he pulled up his calendar for the week and showed it to me and there was not a moment of free time anywhere. I told him to let me deal with some stuff for him and he said he is going to take me up on it but I haven't heard back.

    I would happily have that kind of conversation with everyone unless I just really did not get along with them for some reason (this is rare).

    But it just doesn't seem like anyone really cares in the typical day to day "How's it going?" "Oh, can't complain, how about with you?" "Doing well" type exchanges. It just seems like protocol as much as anything else.

  5. #75
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,134

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    Fidelia what really worries me is that the closer I am to the person in question-the less they question my ideas....I actually dont anticipate this-thus I find I am actually having to stop sharing early with my new ENTP boss who is a very good friend. He will take in the idea too readily without deep questioning of the thought.
    I think this could be headed off by explaining ahead of time that you are exploring ideas out loud and that they are not necessarily conclusive. It truly is not obvious to us that this is just part of your process. One way we show that we trust andd respect someone is by not directly challenging their ideas unless it is obviously going to be dangerous, destructive or harmful in some way. If that is not readily apparent, then we are saying we trust your judgement and we are also being supportive.

  6. #76
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    To the last bit - exactly! When I say "Have a great day!" and someone says, "See you later", I'm likely to notice the difference in temperature and recalibrate what my perception of our relationship to each other is.

    It's not that every time I'm deeply immersed in the possibility of how they really, really are doing, even though I do care and would be open to hearing. If they respond differently than usual though, I would notice and probably ask a little more. I think that might be seen as invasive, depending on whether the person wanted to talk or not, but it is my way of showing that I actually do care and that it wouldn't be a burden to me to hear if things weren't going swimmingly.
    I want to ask extend a question to you fidelia, or any ‘Fe individual’ that would be so kind as to answer, but I fear the question is so simpleminded that it will not be taken for what it is…that being ‘Starry is a social idiot’…but rather I am being a smartass and am merely making a mockery of this ‘How are you?’ type of interaction. Let me assure you it is the former.

    If I am at work…and someone asks me ‘How are you doing?’…and the truth is…I am unwell…am I not still supposed to say ‘Fine’? Or I guess I could use the lesser of the two which I will hear from time to time ‘I’m hanging in there’ (which I believe translates to: I am a bit stressed out but I will be ‘Fine’). But what if I am truly unwell? I am not supposed to disclose that in a social setting correct? Like, I am not supposed to say ‘Well, I just found out my wife is cheating on me…so not that great.’ Or ‘Real shitty. But ask me again in a couple of weeks. Perhaps the meds will have kicked-in by then.’
    If two people have a working relationship…the answer is always to be some version of ‘Fine’ right?

    And so you are saying that this is the way Fe ‘checks-in’ on a relationship. So am I supposed to say ‘Fine’…and then you will determine from my tone whether or not I am truly ‘Fine’ and if you feel like it…approach me later and you will say something like… ‘I know you said you were ‘Fine’ but I noticed you still seemed a bit unhappy. Is something bothering you?’ And that is when it would be appropriate to open up to you?

    I don’t want to take away from the theme of this thread…but it is interesting to me because I feel very ‘controlled’ by this type of exchange. When this type of exchange occurs I often feel that I am put into a position where I must lie. And then there is a sense that the person that asked me feels ‘okay’ like ‘great we are all fine here’…when the entire group may be suffering in silence. The best is when you have some sort of salesman do this type of ‘How are you today Starry!?’…and all I can think is ‘just get to the part where you tell me how you are going to rip-me-off okay?’

  7. #77
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,134

    Default

    No one likes to feel cohearsed. We all dig our heels in at different things that set our teeth on edge.

    I rarely ask people how they are doing in front of a whole group. I do take a lot away from tone and if I feel that the other person wouldn't think me intrusive, I may ask further if they don't seem so fine or would just cut them a little extra slack, do something nice for them etc. Probably I'd be surprised if we were only on a hi, bye kind of basis if they were to open up about everything going on, although I don't really think it would bother me. I wouldn't expect them to have to spill though if they thought it was inappropriate to the relationship or if they weren't ready or didn't want to spill to me. Generally if I don't want to talk about something, but I still want to be honest, I may say something like, "I've had better days, but things will be alright". I don't know if that is representative of all Fe users or not, but that's how I see it. I do find that if a person gives me even a little information to work with, it helps me greatly for putting their behaviour in context and knowing where I'm at (are they mad at me? Did they have a bad day? Is something going on outside of work? Are they just really busy or have a lot of stress? Are they just thinking about something else and are abstracted?) I probably annoy them way less when I am not trying to subtly figure out which of those many options it could be. I also am more able to respect their wishes (or even determine what those wishes may be).

  8. #78
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,932

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by StarryKnights View Post
    I want to ask extend a question to you fidelia, or any ‘Fe individual’ that would be so kind as to answer, but I fear the question is so simpleminded that it will not be taken for what it is…that being ‘Starry is a social idiot’…but rather I am being a smartass and am merely making a mockery of this ‘How are you?’ type of interaction. Let me assure you it is the former.

    If I am at work…and someone asks me ‘How are you doing?’…and the truth is…I am unwell…am I not still supposed to say ‘Fine’? Or I guess I could use the lesser of the two which I will hear from time to time ‘I’m hanging in there’ (which I believe translates to: I am a bit stressed out but I will be ‘Fine’). But what if I am truly unwell? I am not supposed to disclose that in a social setting correct? Like, I am not supposed to say ‘Well, I just found out my wife is cheating on me…so not that great.’ Or ‘Real shitty. But ask me again in a couple of weeks. Perhaps the meds will have kicked-in by then.’
    If two people have a working relationship…the answer is always to be some version of ‘Fine’ right?
    Short answer - yeah, I think the appropriate answer for a working relationship is some version of 'Fine'. Or, just generally being more light-hearted/self-deprecating about your own angst. Or whatever.

    -------------------------

    Personally, small talk in work settings (i.e. going up the elevator) is something I don't care for, so I tend to keep to my quiet self but will do the obligatory small talk if it's unavoidable and/or it would seem rude if I didn't say anything. So yeah, I'll just do the 'How's it going' thing, but honestly I don't care so much how they respond. I mean, with a strictly work relationship without my having becoming friends with them (i.e. we never share personal details about each other, it's strictly work talk), it would seem odd to me if they then blurted out all of the details of the chaos in their life or whatnot. But I'm not sure that's ever happened - as you say, usually if someone's not doing well they just make a face or say something like, 'Ah, you know', then a knowing look and a head shake, or a 'I'll be glad when this week is over' thing. But if it's kept rather simple like that it's not a big deal at all if they admit they're in a grumpy mood or whatever. I don't think I'd hold it against them if they went into great detail about their woes, but it would definitely surprise me and I'd probably find it a little odd if I'd not known a thing about them prior.

    When I myself am not in a great mood, I'll admit it - I'll just say, 'Eh, not great, but whatever, what can you do', or I'll give a little smirk or eye roll or will shake my head. Something nonverbal like that. I just keep it brief and don't elaborate, as I don't think it's appropriate, really, to elaborate with these casual work relationships. Now I might elaborate with the one or two people I actually really LIKE and connect with at work, but I don't do that with anyone else.

    This is a little anecdote, but several years ago I was in an elevator and just in a generally cranky mood as by that point I had come to really despise my job, and there was always this one uber-chirpy woman who'd do the overly enthusiastic 'How are you doing' thing every time I saw her, and it honestly grated on me. So one morning in the elevator she asked me that question, and I didn't feel like playing along and I just said very matter-of-factly, 'Linda, I'm not doing well. I'm cranky and I don't want to be here and blah blah blah..' And she looked at me and if I recall she never really asked me that question again.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  9. #79
    Undisciplined Starry's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Posts
    5,628

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Short answer - yeah, I think the appropriate answer for a working relationship is some version of 'Fine'. Or, just generally being more light-hearted/self-deprecating about your own angst. Or whatever.

    -------------------------

    Personally, small talk in work settings (i.e. going up the elevator) is something I don't care for, so I tend to keep to my quiet self but will do the obligatory small talk if it's unavoidable and/or it would seem rude if I didn't say anything. So yeah, I'll just do the 'How's it going' thing, but honestly I don't care so much how they respond. I mean, with a strictly work relationship without my having becoming friends with them (i.e. we never share personal details about each other, it's strictly work talk), it would seem odd to me if they then blurted out all of the details of the chaos in their life or whatnot. But I'm not sure that's ever happened - as you say, usually if someone's not doing well they just make a face or say something like, 'Ah, you know', then a knowing look and a head shake, or a 'I'll be glad when this week is over' thing. But if it's kept rather simple like that it's not a big deal at all if they admit they're in a grumpy mood or whatever. I don't think I'd hold it against them if they went into great detail about their woes, but it would definitely surprise me and I'd probably find it a little odd if I'd not known a thing about them prior.

    When I myself am not in a great mood, I'll admit it - I'll just say, 'Eh, not great, but whatever, what can you do', or I'll give a little smirk or eye roll or will shake my head. Something nonverbal like that. I just keep it brief and don't elaborate, as I don't think it's appropriate, really, to elaborate with these casual work relationships. Now I might elaborate with the one or two people I actually really LIKE and connect with at work, but I don't do that with anyone else.

    This is a little anecdote, but several years ago I was in an elevator and just in a generally cranky mood as by that point I had come to really despise my job, and there was always this one uber-chirpy woman who'd do the overly enthusiastic 'How are you doing' thing every time I saw her, and it honestly grated on me. So one morning in the elevator she asked me that question, and I didn't feel like playing along and I just said very matter-of-factly, 'Linda, I'm not doing well. I'm cranky and I don't want to be here and blah blah blah..' And she looked at me and if I recall she never really asked me that question again.
    Cascadeco - that last little story is AWESOME...and really made my day. I am still chuckling about it to myself as I type this. Thank you so much for sharing it (I needed a story like that as I've been 'hanging in there' as of late LOL!)

    I really appreciate you and fidelia taking the time to address this issue with me as it has been something that has basically confused me my entire life. What you describe above is very similar to what I do in my real life and it is helpful to know that I am, I guess, doing what I should be doing with regards to this type of day-to-day social interaction.

    It is painful for me though. But I guess, at least in this regard, it is an Fe kind of world. Thank you very much for helping me better understand it.

  10. #80
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    4,226

    Default

    I have to be very careful about the "how are you question?". My instinctual response is to tell them exactly how I am in all the bitter, ansgty, moody glory. It could easily turn into a five minute convo. Often the answer may be "My day sucks. these people are all crazy? What the hell?" Hehehehe, on some level I am lucky as I work with a couple of friends and we can do this with each other.

    However, at some point I learned to bite my tongue as they didnt REALLY want to hear about my day. It actually is much easier as at heart I am sort of a people pleaser, so once you guys explained the Fe-side, if saying "oh, having a great day and you?" makes them a little bit happier, well sure, I can do that.

    I suppose that's how I have managed to trick my Fi-authenticity detector a bit!

Similar Threads

  1. Video: ENFPs And Being Lazy
    By highlander in forum Typology Videos and RSS Feeds
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 05-07-2017, 05:39 PM
  2. [ENFP] ENFP's and Being Happy With Your Present Situation
    By Forever_Jung in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 09-24-2013, 09:19 PM
  3. [ENFP] ENFP and being judged/judging others
    By Lily flower in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 22
    Last Post: 11-17-2011, 07:14 PM
  4. [ENFP] ENFPs and being alone.
    By cheerchick23 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-12-2011, 02:46 AM
  5. [ENFP] ENFPs and perception of "well-likedness"
    By autumn in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 61
    Last Post: 10-16-2008, 08:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO