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  1. #41
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    that article animenagai posted - i think it's a great article if you're really a 4w3 but if you're actually a 7 it makes you sound like a hollow, sensation-driven shell. i can't see any ENFP 7 resonating with that description.

    The only thing innately 4ish about the ENFP is the inferior, less used, Introverted Sensing function, which can produce a strong sentimentality for past experiences.
    i really thought 4 and Fi could have a lot of overlap. being in touch with your emotions, seeking the identity of oneself and of others. maybe i'm misunderstanding 4, but i'm pretty convinced i'm not a 4, and yet i resonate with a lot of things in that article pertaining to 4w3. i definitely have a sense of fantasy lingering and seek identity - but i seek identity primarily in others, not in myself. i don't think it's as easy as saying if you seek identity, you're a 4, and if you don't, you're not. ENFPs seek external idealized stimulation (Ne) and internal subjective identity (Fi). this author is lumping external and objective, and internal and ideal, together. but they're not the same thing. the two can be split apart and recombined.

    In fact, a 7 in real life may be quite dissappointing to a 4. Everything Riso and Hudson claims about 7s is true. Their is little idealized fantasy in them. [...] They say, "Oh! This is awesome! This is great," and then one disappointment and they completely loose interest for that moment, and, as one 7-winger, put it "life s*cks" for that moment. They have absolutely no interest, no fantasy lingering, like a 4. [...] It is pure mental stimulation that is their core need, completely unlike a 4's, which is identity. [...] Fours...cherishing beautiful objects of the sake of their beauty and the feelings that beauty awakens in them. A stone picked up on the beach or a twig with a single bud can quicken their aesthetic feelings and satisfy them. By contrast, while average Sevens want to possess beautiful objects, they become increasingly unappreciative and insensitive to the beauty or value of those objects. The 4 will experience a real appreciation of beauty (in things, fantasy, emotions, etc.) vs. the 7's fleeting materialistic interest. [...] 7s and 7-wingers may indeed be NFs, a characteristic which has nothing innately to do with identity issues. They don't have the issues around the desire of being yourself and being understood like 4s do. [...] Some people may take offense to the characterization of the 7 as "more shallow" than the 4.
    you think? i don't even know if i'm a 7 and i'm ticked off.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    ii think 7s are prone to being shallow, just like 3s, even more so.. thats an ugly truth but i is true. because of positive approach to life you need to ignore negatives which makes you *more* shallow. just like 4s are known to be prone to depression.
    i had really unpleasant experiences with 7s in ugly times. just like descriptions say: they are here, but then there are not. or my favorite thing is that when i shared something extremely traumatic with my 7 friend, something that would make most people suicidal, 7 days after that, he acted as if i told him nothing and sent me a message "hah, where are you? partying somewhere far away from me?"
    i was like eeeek whaat? partying? did u forget wtf is happening in my life?!
    though i know he didnt mean anything bad but its fucking irritating having *real* problems next a 7 who would do a lot not to see them. its much pleasant to go through a rough times next a 6,8,9..1 - well basically everyone than a 7.
    and to make clear 7 from example claims i am his bes friend so ita not like he doesnt care for me.

    of course

  3. #43
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    ii think 7s are prone to being shallow, just like 3s, even more so.. thats an ugly truth but i is true. because of positive approach to life you need to ignore negatives which makes you *more* shallow. just like 4s are known to be prone to depression.
    i had really unpleasant experiences with 7s in ugly times. just like descriptions say: they are here, but then they are not. or my favorite thing is that when i shared something extremely traumatic with my 7 friend, something that would make most people suicidal, 7 days after that, he acted as if i told him nothing and sent me a message "hah, where are you? partying somewhere far away from me?"
    i was like eeeek whaat? partying? did u forget wtf is happening in my life?!
    though i know he didnt mean anything bad but its fucking irritating having *real* problems next a 7 who would do a lot not to see them. its much pleasant to go through a rough times next a 6,8,9..1 - well basically everyone than a 7.
    and to make clear 7 from example claims i am his bes friend so ita not like he doesnt care for me.

    did anyone watch movie "Happiness"? well the wife of that pedophile psychiatrist - ESFJ and 7, i am quite sure. Well, thats an ugly example of 7 gone very bad would do anything to keep thinking her life is so awesome, and she has soo great husband and blah blah blah


    i hope i didnt offend 7s - was talking of worst cases/sides

  4. #44
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    "they are here, but then they are not."

    I think I agree.

  5. #45
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    edit: @ petra pan

    i can see how 7's come across that way...but deep down...if you ever get close enough to look....i assure you the feelings are there and they run deep...we worry...and feel pain and stress...not showing it is just our coping mechanism.

    i have mad stress at the moment...but i still smile and laugh...i think perhaps we compartmentalize more than others. when things are broken up into bits...you get to say..yes...this sucks and so does that...but it's all filed away...over there... and giving it too much energy doesn't make it go away...so i'll focus on these things here which are good and happy and require no emotional effort...you see the thing is...my energy flows one way...and if it's forced to go the other it's like going upstream against the current and it wears me the hell out.

    eta: okay...maybe that is shallow...just reread it and maybe it is...
    i do admire 4's a lot...their interior world is pretty fascinating and really knowing them is like having a vip pass...or something..
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  6. #46
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ohh. yeah i see. i'm sorry about your friend, that sucks.

    i agree that certain types can seem more "superficial", but i think i rebel against that word used with people in general because it implies that there's a lack of thought or intelligence going on, when i think usually the people we label as superficial just have different reasoning than us, instead of no reasoning. sometimes, of course, people do things without thinking, but that's generally because they're operating in ways that seem solid to them, and they don't realize that those ways don't always work given a certain situation. maybe that is more simplistic, but i don't think it should carry a connotation of not caring.

    i think i actually tend to be like your friend too :/ it's because i don't want to bring up extra hurt for the other person if they're not thinking about it, you know? like sometimes people don't want to talk about it and i want to give them space if they want space... again no idea if i'm a 7 but for me it's not about ignoring problems so much as realizing how much they're psychologically sustained, and realizing that if you can get away from that, you can strip away some of the hurt...

    i guess for me it's like, i know that there is a hurt, and that hurt is occurring because something is missing that i can't really get back. like one of my uncles died recently. i am very hurt by it and miss him a lot, but a day later i was watching stupid movies and laughing loudly. one of my relatives was taken aback and said it was upsetting and disrespectful - but for me, that didn't make any sense. my uncle loved stupid movies - in fact, that movie one was his - and watching the movie didn't have anything to do with not respecting my uncle. it just didn't relate, in my mind. in fact, i'm pretty sure he would want us to still laugh. it's not like being sad would make my uncle come back, or would help me adapt to life without him any better. i guess what i feel is like being happy and feeling loss at the same time aren't incongruous... maybe you'd be partying if partying helped you ease the pain - because sometimes the pain is helpful in understanding, and in empathizing, but sometimes it's just pain and it's not really doing you any good, either.

    i dunno. maybe your friend thinks like that too... maybe he'd just bounced along to the next thing already and thought maybe you would be bouncing too... that does sound like a pretty insensitive message, though.

  7. #47
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    yeah...that's how i am too...my sister and i drove back from my little sisters funeral...and believe me...we were both numb and distraught...just out of it...but driving down the highway something under her car started dragging and we pulled over and realized it was part of the bumber! and we were dying laughing...putting it in the backseat...it was just sooo ridiculous...rare behavior for the time perhaps...sometimes life is just so ridiculous and you have to laugh at the circumstances you find yourself in...even if there's a lot of hurt and pain going on too....it's like...awhile ago my roommates cat fell on my head from the loft above...it fucking hurt like hell but was so soooo funny..i mean...it's a cat...they're not supposed to fall..and it was far....i think i was laughing and crying at the same time.

    wait...maybe the cat story had nothing to do with anything...i don't know...i lost my point...haha!!!
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #48
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petra Pan View Post
    ii think 7s are prone to being shallow, just like 3s, even more so.. thats an ugly truth but i is true. because of positive approach to life you need to ignore negatives which makes you *more* shallow. just like 4s are known to be prone to depression.
    You know, what is seen outside, isn't necessarily what can be found inside.

    About type 7 are prone to be shallow. I would say that there are different types of 7's, empathic and less empathic just like people inside of one personality type are different. I don't know ennegram enough to say if enneagram tells anything about person's empathy skills... because if it doesn't then one's enneagram type has nothing to do with skills to empathize with others and then making generalizations of somebodys empahty related behavior in regarding to their enneagram type isn't relevant at all. But as I said before, I don't know enneagram enough to say so I could be wrong also...

  9. #49
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    @Lady X - I dont think 7s dont care. Its vers individual and i know my friend has probably more depth than I do, but it comes often to how you act. And with me it seems a fact, well not really a fact but its pattern with 7s i had, that you wont really have support throigh the rough times like from some types like 6. Everybody does that like laughing at/after funerals, I do it too - but some problems u cant keep avoding and u need to eventually face, and it is really irritating when person doesnt care about the truth. I dont think 7s do it so often to make u feel better, If ever, more bc they cant handle the ugly truth. I mean am i really saying something new? even the books say: getting a 7 to *see* the problem iw half the battle. Positive approach is overrated if it means just ignoring problems and truth.
    Like i wouldnt ignore problems if some arent too big to ignore?! i think its just pleasing themselves - the thing 7s do when u need support so they ignore it. That type is all about pleasing yourself anyway, by definition. Not others, like 2s.
    snd that was only one example ive got them with other 7s too and they prove they dont ignore u bc they want not to disturb u (which skylights menioned ) but simply not to disturb themselves

    well each type has annoying habits so 7 is no exception.


    and not even that 7s lack empathy - more important is taht they lack presence. Like i read also; 7 will help you paint your new apartment but only first morning, aftwr that they will be bored and gone.
    so its all to amuse *yourself*?!:/

  10. #50
    Senior Member Chloe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alcea rosea View Post
    You know, what is seen outside, isn't necessarily what can be found inside.
    i know that. I was saying that it seems i cant rely on 7s in hard times in outside world. No that they dont care deep deep down. Sometimes its all about what you give. I dont need a clown, I need honesty.

    Maybe my experience with 7s is just bad, but i doubt so bc there were 4 of them with same behavior. I think I just don have patience for it.
    Its all good, I can see why would someone hate my over ambitiousness or obsession with achieving and competing, as 3, I find it annoying in myself too. But I tend to look myself I guess little more realistic than 7s; another annoying trait in 'em.


    positivity =/= ignoring problems

    to me posiitve approach is facing problems full on, until you solve them.

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