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  1. #21
    Senior Member Saslou's Avatar
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    I find it pretty easy to withhold from people in general, a learned response. If i do open up, i don't regret it though as it means i trust you and trust is important to me.
    “I made you take time to look at what I saw and when you took time to really notice my flower, you hung all your associations with flowers on my flower and you write about my flower as if I think and see what you think and see—and I don't.”
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  2. #22
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkavia View Post
    Could you go a little bit deeper about the ENFJ ability to soak up "dirt"? It's nothing against him, of course, it wasn't his fault and I dont blame him for not having anything to say. That doesn't make it any less annoying or me feel any less embarrassed for doing it in the first place.

    I wonder if what you say is true about the "your turn" situation. I do try to advise and listen.
    Ah. So he was a culprit.
    Well the first bit is regarding ENFJ ability to do damage to other people. For some reason, we're very good at utilizing our person-specific knowledge to get the hooks into someone and obliterate them when threatened. I hear of ESFJs trying to do this, but falling short much of the time. I don't know if you view your ENFJ as possessing this ability. I know you've mentioned him being sorta out of touch with his Fe or something along those lines ?

    The latter could be that he has nothing to say, that he cannot advise, or a third option. (Oh jeez, I just stole my ENFPs phrase of 'third option' ).
    Third option is needing to properly organize and word thoughts in order to respond. Also needing to be genuine about them, instead of coming across with the 'fake' (or generic) side of Fe. Personally, I find it difficult to respond to some people on important things until I can genuinely tune into their situation and give it the proper attention. Generic Fe gives a damn, but it isn't finetuned for friendships. I'd also say there's a perfectionist complex when it comes to how we advise and when we're unable, we may just refuse.

    Side example- my Zumba instructor's brother passed away last week. I didn't leave any comment to her about it, because I felt I needed to genuinely tune in and say more than the basic. I currently feel that I should say something just because it is normal, regardless of being tuned in. Etc.
    Hang on traveling woman - Don't sacrifice your plan
    Cause it will come back to you - Before you lose it on the man


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  3. #23
    Senior Member Malkavia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    Ah. So he was a culprit.
    Well the first bit is regarding ENFJ ability to do damage to other people. For some reason, we're very good at utilizing our person-specific knowledge to get the hooks into someone and obliterate them when threatened. I hear of ESFJs trying to do this, but falling short much of the time. I don't know if you view your ENFJ as possessing this ability. I know you've mentioned him being sorta out of touch with his Fe or something along those lines ?

    The latter could be that he has nothing to say, that he cannot advise, or a third option. (Oh jeez, I just stole my ENFPs phrase of 'third option' ).
    Third option is needing to properly organize and word thoughts in order to respond. Also needing to be genuine about them, instead of coming across with the 'fake' (or generic) side of Fe. Personally, I find it difficult to respond to some people on important things until I can genuinely tune into their situation and give it the proper attention. Generic Fe gives a damn, but it isn't finetuned for friendships. I'd also say there's a perfectionist complex when it comes to how we advise and when we're unable, we may just refuse.

    Side example- my Zumba instructor's brother passed away last week. I didn't leave any comment to her about it, because I felt I needed to genuinely tune in and say more than the basic. I currently feel that I should say something just because it is normal, regardless of being tuned in. Etc.
    Ah I understand. While I think he "could" do this I dont think he would use all this information to obliterate me one day. I honestly believe most ENFJs would never do that.

    I'm going with option 2 or 3. The annoyance comes from with them having nothing to say therefore I felt like I was wasting everyone's time, more than I'm afraid it will come back to bite me in the ass. (That feeling happened with the second situation, who happens to be a female ENFJ, ironically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    I know you've mentioned him being sorta out of touch with his Fe or something along those lines ?
    Who knows whats up him. Hes crazy. :P Love him though.

  4. #24
    Lungs & Lips Locked Unkindloving's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malkavia View Post
    Ah I understand. While I think he "could" do this I dont think he would use all this information to obliterate me one day. I honestly believe most ENFJs would never do that.
    Bad :smacks your hand:. Do not let the fluffy exterior fool you. It's our trickery that we aren't even aware of!
    It is good to hear that your consider yours to be in check though . How long have you been friends? I have a feeling we've been over this, but it's been a while.
    I'm going with option 2 or 3. The annoyance comes from with them having nothing to say therefore I felt like I was wasting everyone's time, more than I'm afraid it will come back to bite me in the ass. (That feeling happened with the second situation, who happens to be a female ENFJ, ironically.
    Fiesty critters, those lady-enfjs. Oh look over there! A special, distracting thing!
    I am actually surprised you got these reactions from ENFJs, even with my potential explanation.
    Who knows whats up him. Hes crazy. :P Love him though.
    D'aw. Bro hugs? lol
    Hang on traveling woman - Don't sacrifice your plan
    Cause it will come back to you - Before you lose it on the man


    .:: DWTWD ::.

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    There is this thing keeping everyone's lungs and lips locked - It is called fear and it's seeing a great renaissance

  5. #25
    Senior Member Malkavia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    Bad :smacks your hand:. Do not let the fluffy exterior fool you. It's our trickery that we aren't even aware of!
    It is good to hear that your consider yours to be in check though . How long have you been friends? I have a feeling we've been over this, but it's been a while.

    Fiesty critters, those lady-enfjs. Oh look over there! A special, distracting thing!
    I am actually surprised you got these reactions from ENFJs, even with my potential explanation.

    D'aw. Bro hugs? lol
    Been friends for fours years now, we're rooming together during our last year of college.

    The female ENFJ just called him slow today when it comes to people . I consider that a bit harsh, but yeah he can be pretty oblivious to people's emotions and the more subtle parts of people.

    It has been a while since we've talked about my fascination to ENFJs.

    I still stand by what I said. The few (three) ENFJs that I've known aren't the type to explode and throw everything they know about you in your face. If it DID happen the ones I know would feel absolutely horrible about it soon afterwards. The two girl ENFJs that I know can be feisty, but good hearted and well intentioned.

  6. #26
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rebe View Post
    It's as much not wanting people to be able to pinpoint us in our weakest moments/weakest states and us not accepting ourselves when we are less than perfect. I think emotional outbursts are very ugly and messy


    i feel slightly embarrassed afterwards, sometimes, especially if i don't really get to explain myself fully. that's part of the ENFP Te steamroller for me. must explain myself so i don't look horrible to the other person. i'm kind of scary when i get angry or angsty.

    okay. really scary. :blushing:

    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    Part of me would be proud of anyone who could really dig in there and honestly affect me, instead of constantly missing the mark.
    ENFJs! this is so funny to me because, if most ENFJs are anything like the ENFJ i know well, you are very tricky to get to know on a deep level and you don't show your insecurities quickly. or sometimes you do show them a bit, but you do it in a very veiled way that most people aren't likely to pick up on. it's entertaining, but totally unsurprising to hear this, because i can totally see how it would happen.

    i feel like i'm playing a key-and-lock game when my ENFJ friend starts expressing the tip of the iceberg about some worry she has. it's like i have to pick up on the right thing, and if i do, then she feels comfortable saying more. i used to get frustrated and wish she'd just go ahead and tell me, but i get the sense that it's a security thing. like she wants to make sure i'm on the right track in understanding her before she reveals her deep-seated worries to me. sometimes i'll miss the mark right off the bat but then i just ask a few questions and she'll start letting me in. it's a very interesting process, though i know she tends to bottle up stress and worry, and i think it could be hard on her if there's no one around who understands it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unkindloving View Post
    For some reason, we're very good at utilizing our person-specific knowledge to get the hooks into someone and obliterate them when threatened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkavia
    The few (three) ENFJs that I've known aren't the type to explode and throw everything they know about you in your face.
    i think this is true too, but have you ever pushed one really far? like, really, really far? like as in giant ENFP Te attack far? that's when i've gotten ENFJ attacked back. they're good. i need about 50 words to do the sort of destruction an ENFJ can do in 15. ime, ENFJ-ENFP fight is not pretty... :ouch:

    though, i have to point out, that this ENFJ friend is the one i trust to completely open up to. after we had one really bad tussle and kind of both felt like assholes about it we talked about what happened and realized that we act exactly opposite under stress and were freaking each other out. now that we know that, it's easier to catch one another, and ourselves, before we get too far.

    anyway, back to the thread title... only when it's negative. i don't mind positive sharing, but when i have to explain something deep because i made someone angry or hurt them, that's uncomfortable and i just want to pretend it never happened.

  7. #27
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JocktheMotie View Post
    I regret it every time I do it.
    That doesn't sound like you...

    I can't say I do really. Not since I was a kid.
    It can suck to make yourself vulnerable to someone and fail to get an appropriate response. But even that failure is useful information to refine your estimation of the relationship. So, no. No regrets.
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  8. #28
    Member TacEight's Avatar
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    I've not been manipulated too much in my life, and I usually see through it beforehand anyhow, but I've almost always felt like an idiot after opening up to others. I still do, and have been told I trust too easily by many. Probably my sx/sp's doing for opening up, and my sx/sp's doing for expressing myself and then feeling like an idiot, lol.
    INTP - Ti > Ne > Te > Ni > Fi > Se > Fe > Si

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  9. #29
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    Nah, of course I've been a bit of a closed book most of my life so me opening up is something I very rarely do. However when I do depends on the emotional guidance system and where I am at in regards to my loops.

    There are a few considerations.

    What do you call good quality opening up and what do you call bad quality opening up?

    In negative energy states opening up is different than in positive energy states.

    In negatives I would be taking energy and stressing people out with the energy and then that would be awkward. Then in positive energy states I would be happy to open up without fear, guilt or apprehension that it is a regrettable thing to do. Because I know that I expressed how I wanted to without taking energy away, feeling awkward or vulnerable. Why should I if I trust the other person to open up to. People have a strange way of being afraid of communicating one way or the other so who knows.

    And hence no, I don't regret opening up when I do it. The thing that I have regretted is being in a negative energy state that became overwhelming and unwanted and I became oblivious to it and continued to express the emotional scale in the loop that had me tender hook and straw. That would be draining and then that would be selfish.

  10. #30
    The Duchess of Oddity Queen Kat's Avatar
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    Always. People never stop making strange conclusions out of the things I say and whenever they jump to these ridiculous conclusions, they tell them to other people. Okay, what the fuck? So when I tell you I like someone, the thing I actually want to say is that I want you to organize a speeddating night with a ton of creepos? What the FUCK? People are sooooooooo weird.
    I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower. The TV was obviously on. I used to fly myself and I said, "There's one terrible pilot."
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