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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    *prods Jim*
    You're right, but I swear that I'm answering in general, on my experience here
    *prods Amargith*
    Oh, I know I felt I had additional to add to the debate.

    I've also found that if you get them some sort of writing medium (me and my So are doing the LDR thing rigtht now and we have a website where we post and keep in touch with one another, his idea and I *LOVE* it), they start organizing that writing medium and in the process you get to see how they feel about things. Coz that thign has reminders, has structure and reminds them that they're supposed to give you an answer on that question

  2. #12
    Analytical Dreamer Coriolis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    For real. It's frustrating, it's infuriating, it makes no sense (to us!) but you have *got* to let them figure it out. The worst part is that I'm going mad with curiosity and he's just sitting there going 'I don't know', if I get a response at all. So then I naturally start asking him questions that would help him come to that answer, and you hit the same snag with those questions! And then when you finally give up all exasperated, you forget about the matter (as our memories suck). However, at some point that same discussion gets triggered and you go through exactly *the same* process coz..well you forgot about it, but so did they!!!! Their memory is worse, so once you get out of that discussion, they'll forget about it and won't even get back to you with the answer. It's maddening!

    So what I do is (and I truly hate doing this but hey), if it's important enough, I'lll remind/nag him about it once a day. And at some point I'm able to extract some sort of answer.
    At the risk of a digressing to other types: I see the same behavior, especially the highlighted, from my INTP. The only difference is that we don't forget the discussion, but STILL end up having it again later, equally unproductively. I admit, I usually initiate discussions, which means I've had lots of time to think about it and formulate my thoughts. Even if I broach the subject initially and then wait days/weeks, though, it doesn't help. I do try the daily reminder approach, and occasionally it yields a few tidbits, but they are no more than crumbs at the feast. The persistent futility of it all just drives me round the bend, but I have been unable to figure out how to short-circuit the process so the discussion can proceed to a more conclusive -- or at least informative -- end.

  3. #13
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Give her a piece of paper and ask her to selfreflect on it and write it down ( or type it out on a PC). For real. Introverts need the freedom to organize their thoughts and then to share it with you, theyr'e best of writing big blocks of text, ime. To me, that's draining, but I've had several introverts contact me here through PM and write these walls of text. It's hard to sift through for me, as I prefer one on one interaction (keeps me from procrastinating), but their introverting demands they first think before they write. And then once they start writing, they start pouring stuff out.
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  4. #14
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    Wait, correct me if I'm wrong, but Coriolis is a chick, right?

    Did I miss that she was also a lesbian, or am I wrong in my gender assumption, or was Amar wrong in hers?


  5. #15
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    I could be wrong, sorry!
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  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    And I'll stress that one of the harder things to learn as an ENFP is to give them that space to figure it out, even when it drives us up the wall. BUT it is soooo frigging necessary to learn how to do that, when dating an INTJ, it's how they are, and you gotto love em that way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    It's just that since we do our thinking out loud, we naturally presume they'll think along with us.
    And therein lies the error.

    This is why typology is so great, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    And as long as we just need to have a sounding board, it works.
    And we are more than willing to listen.

    You guys are just so cute...

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    The second however you ask them 'so how do you feel about this?' and they haven't given this any thought before...well you might as well go

    For real. It's frustrating, it's infuriating, it makes no sense (to us!) but you have *got* to let them figure it out. The worst part is that I'm going mad with curiosity and he's just sitting there going 'I don't know', if I get a response at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    So then I naturally start asking him questions that would help him come to that answer, and you hit the same snag with those questions!


    This is actually the worst part...

    It's like, "Hey! You THINK I don't know how to analyze an issue?! You think these questions, these couple questions, in sequential order, are going to all of a sudden give me the correct answer?!? :steam:

    WHEN I ANALYZE THIS ISSUE, FIGURING OUT THE ANSWER TO THESE QUESTIONS WILL BE LIKE 1% OF THE TOTAL ANALYTICAL PUZZLE THAT I MASTER!

    WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT ANSWERING THEM, WITHOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT THEM BEFOREHAND, IN TANDEM SEQUENTIAL ORDER IS ACTUALLY GOING TO DO ANYTHING TO BRING ME TO THE POINT THAT I WILL BE WILLING TO GIVE YOU MY FINAL PIECE ON THIS MATTER, AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME."



    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    And then when you finally give up all exasperated, you forget about the matter (as our memories suck). However, at some point that same discussion gets triggered and you go through exactly *the same* process coz..well you forgot about it, but so did they!!!! Their memory is worse, so once you get out of that discussion, they'll forget about it and won't even get back to you with the answer. It's maddening!
    I don't know how much the memory stuff actually has to do with typology...

    My memory is really good. Silly's is actually quite good as well...

    Our process actually goes a little bit differently:

    I'll try to offer up a response to her initial question, but usually I'll express that it's really not a well-formulated thought, and that I'll have to do some more thinking on it.

    This is my attempt to get her to stop asking for my opinion on the matter, and, hopefully, it works... If it doesn't, then, eventually, I'll feel something like that above (:steam... Often times, though, she'll let it go, which then leads to:

    Me actually spending time thinking about it at a later date.

    The caveat, however, is that I usually have no control over when that date is: it just happens...

    Then, sometime down the road, we'll get into another discussion about something, and the topic of that prior discussion will naturally come to mind (usually mine), and we'll dive back into the topic, and I'll present her with the more-developed thoughts I now have on the subject.

    It sounds to me like your guys' memory is totally shot!

    What're you doin' over there in the Netherlands???



    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    So what I do is (and I truly hate doing this but hey), if it's important enough, I'lll remind/nag him about it once a day.
    Not a bad strategy, actually...

    We probably won't think about it at the moment, but it might cause us to think about it later in the day, when we have some alone time.

    I, personally, do a lot of my best thinking when I'm driving.

    My mind goes into kind of an active-passive state, I only partially pay attention to the driving (which, interestingly enough, is quite enough), and I start thinking about my issues of the day.

    Yoga also helps...

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    And at some point I'm able to extract some sort of answer. I've also found that if you get them some sort of writing medium (me and my So are doing the LDR thing rigtht now and we have a website where we post and keep in touch with one another, his idea and I *LOVE* it), they start organizing that writing medium and in the process you get to see how they feel about things. Coz that thign has reminders, has structure and reminds them that they're supposed to give you an answer on that question
    Great idea about the website!

    I think that would be kinda cool to have even if you weren't in a LDR.

    How does it work? Is it password-protected, so only you guys can see it?

    Haha, I could imagine that gettin kinda racy...

    Seriously, though, the writing thing is a good idea.

    Silly and I have a common journal.

    It's worked ok.

    I'm not really a journal writer.

    I would, however, be more inclined to use an internet-based mutual journal...



    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Seriously, you people are impossible to extract info out of though when you haven't figured something out yet. Frigging turtles unwilling to come out
    Hey! We all don't go just shootin off at the mouth like uncontrollable hussies!

    Yeah, I said it, HUSSIES!

    Whatcha gunna do about it?!?



    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    I could be wrong, sorry!
    Well, now you've got me second-guessing MYself!

  7. #17
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post

    And we are more than willing to listen.

    You guys are just so cute...



    This is actually the worst part...

    This part is so annoying from my point of view...

    It's like, "Hey! You THINK I don't know how to analyze an issue?! You think these questions, these couple questions, in sequential order, are going to all of a sudden give me the correct answer?!? :steam:

    WHEN I ANALYZE THIS ISSUE, FIGURING OUT THE ANSWER TO THESE QUESTIONS WILL BE LIKE 1% OF THE TOTAL ANALYTICAL PUZZLE THAT I MASTER!

    WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT ANSWERING THEM, WITHOUT EVEN THINKING ABOUT THEM BEFOREHAND, IN TANDEM SEQUENTIAL ORDER IS ACTUALLY GOING TO DO ANYTHING TO BRING ME TO THE POINT THAT I WILL BE WILLING TO GIVE YOU MY FINAL PIECE ON THIS MATTER, AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME."

    Actually, I just think you plain suck at thinking on your feet
    Also, I think you suck at realizing how you truly feel about something. And yes, those questions, if you just let them go through you instead of all clamming up would probably help you analyze the issue instantly if you let it. But you won't, coz you'll feel all self-conscious and won't be sure if it'll fit in with you 'Great Vision'. You would do well to learn from your ENFP that brainstorming =/= fully functional project. It's exploring and drafting, together. And it can be mighty fun.

    But have it your way. At least have the guts to fess up that you suck at it though
    And we, from our side I guess, should stop expecting people to be willing to draft with us, and get frustrated when others clam up when asked to do something that seems so natural and easy to us.


    It sounds to me like your guys' memory is totally shot!
    Si isn't his thing

    What're you doin' over there in the Netherlands???
    Err...dunno, since I'm in Belgium. What was that you said about that memory? *innocent look*
    And yes, the website is kinda private

    Hey! We all don't go just shootin off at the mouth like uncontrollable hussies!

    Yeah, I said it, HUSSIES!

    Whatcha gunna do about it?!?

    Hussie-lover.


    Well, now you've got me second-guessing MYself!
    It's about time someone did
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Actually, I just think you plain suck at thinking on your feet
    Also, I think you suck at realizing how you truly feel about something. And yes, those questions, if you just let them go through you instead of all clamming up would probably help you analyze the issue instantly if you let it. But you won't, coz you'll feel all self-conscious and won't be sure if it'll fit in with you 'Great Vision'. You would do well to learn from your ENFP that brainstorming =/= fully functional project. It's exploring and drafting, together. And it can be mighty fun.

    But have it your way. At least have the guts to fess up that you suck at it though
    I found just the place for your little theory:




    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Err...dunno, since I'm in Belgium. What was that you said about that memory?
    *innocent look*


    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Hussie-lover.


    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    It's about time someone did
    "The only times I'm wrong is when I doubt myself."

    Or when I keep thinking you're from the Netherlands...

    It's probably just cuz I don't want to associate you with such a horrible country.

  9. #19
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    It's not a theory dude, it's an observation. Take it or leave it, doesn't make it less true
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    It's not a theory dude, it's an observation. Take it or leave it, doesn't make it less true
    ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Actually, I just think you plain suck at thinking on your feet
    Theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Also, I think you suck at realizing how you truly feel about something.
    Theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    And yes, those questions, if you just let them go through you instead of all clamming up would probably help you analyze the issue instantly if you let it.
    Theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    But you won't, coz you'll feel all self-conscious and won't be sure if it'll fit in with you 'Great Vision'.
    Theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    You would do well to learn from your ENFP that brainstorming =/= fully functional project.
    Theory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    It's exploring and drafting, together. And it can be mighty fun.
    True.

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