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Thread: be yourself.

  1. #41
    Senior Member Lily flower's Avatar
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    What's funny is that you are being pressured to act a certain way by the ISTP, when you really like the way you were behaving in the first place. If you want to be introverted around some people and bubbly around others, then go ahead. The ISTP can act however he/she wants to act and should leave you alone.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    Moiety -

    i didn't say those things were exclusive to Fi, nor that Fi is "simply some values one adheres to at all times." i think Fi is far more complex than that - it's a part, sure, but not the whole. what i was trying to explain was how it can allow for going with social currents, like Fe, without actually being Fe.

    given arclight's reaction to your posts, i would say that i am not the only one who sensed that you were implying that my experience of my own functions is inferior. i got annoyed because of the reasoning implicit: your account of Fi "does not compute", thus the options are: 1) you are attributing this to the wrong function or 2) you have typed yourself wrong. there was no suggestion of, hey maybe i'm the one not understanding and i should ask the other poster what she means. that's why i was defensive - i didn't see it as unwarranted. i saw your statements as an attack on the validity of what i was saying, and on myself. i'm sorry that it came off as uncalled for to you, because it wasn't my intention to see hostility where there was none.

    you can address my post or not as you please. it stands on its own as an account of how an ENFP could change with her environment and yet remain genuine, and as an affirmation to the OP that she hasn't done anything wrong if she's acted the way she feels is right, regardless of what others may say.

    incidentally - i do indeed see your Ji. i myself am certain you have a good scoop of Ti in there somewhere, regardless of what other functions you may use as well. nothing can get me riled up quite like Ti.

    Pure Class.. perhaps I can learn something from you..

  3. #43
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i didn't say those things were exclusive to Fi, nor that Fi is "simply some values one adheres to at all times." i think Fi is far more complex than that - it's a part, sure, but not the whole. what i was trying to explain was how it can allow for going with social currents, like Fe, without actually being Fe.
    My first post was relating to how obvious the adaptation you mentioned (in the post I quoted) seemed to be to you. (sports crow - > active etc) My "does not compute" comment was expressing surprise. Yes, Fi allows for pretty much any value, but more often than not, Fi users are characterized by being very independent from context in that way. This does not mean I'm saying you suck at Fi or anything. But that maybe you're not engaging on Fi some of the times you do that. Notice I said maybe. The fact that I need to explain this pisses my own Fi off (as if I have to defend myself when I didn't do anything wrong in the first place, and it was all a matter of no-benefit of the doubt interpretation). We use 7 other functions. If a ENFP can go with the social currents, it doesn't mean he or she is using Fi when he or she is doing that.



    given arclight's reaction to your posts, i would say that i am not the only one who sensed that you were implying that my experience of my own functions is inferior. i got annoyed because of the reasoning implicit: your account of Fi "does not compute", thus the options are: 1) you are attributing this to the wrong function or 2) you have typed yourself wrong. there was no suggestion of, hey maybe i'm the one not understanding and i should ask the other poster what she means. that's why i was defensive - i didn't see it as unwarranted. i saw your statements as an attack on the validity of what i was saying, and on myself. i'm sorry that it came off as uncalled for to you, because it wasn't my intention to see hostility where there was none
    .

    It wasn't about me not understanding like I explained previously. Besides, I didn't say anything overtly offensive in any of my posts towards you. "Does not compute", for example, is not a super ultra serious way of phrasing things, which should hint you that I'm not making a big deal of whatever it is that I'm saying. Besides I'm not the most serious person in the world. I guess I should start using more smileys in my posts.

    you can address my post or not as you please. it stands on its own as an account of how an ENFP could change with her environment and yet remain genuine, and as an affirmation to the OP that she hasn't done anything wrong if she's acted the way she feels is right, regardless of what others may say.
    Who said anything about wrong or right? Who am I to tell you what to do? Do you think I'm that stupid to waste my time telling people what to do in such matters? I want to discuss. I love to analyze social situations. If I ask and ping-pong it's to probe.

    incidentally - i do indeed see your Ji. i myself am certain you have a good scoop of Ti in there somewhere, regardless of what other functions you may use as well. nothing can get me riled up quite like Ti.

    A function does not a man make. Besides, being a TP doesn't make one a dick or wrong. Even if it did, I don't see the point in getting defensive (nevermind the fact there's no good reason for it) if someone IS being a dick. Just ignore that person. But I'm pretty sure as an ENFP, you like to communicate and understand people, so Ti needn't rile you up.

  4. #44
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    i know that for me...i'm just really pretty calm one on one...even one on two or three if the they're super chill and the environment is chill. i feel like i absorb the energy level in the room...or acclimate to it...or something...it is literally like plugging into them and what comes out is dependent on what's being put in. it's not at all fake...it is what happens naturally rather i want it to or not.


    edit: now that i've actually read the other comments i'd just like to say i totally relate to what skylights is saying...i'm completely confident that i'm a fi user but wouldn't be surprised if i come of as fe ish to others...because...i operate from a place of empathy...equality...the well being of others is just as important to me as my own...treat others as you believe everyone deserves to be treated and all that....anyway...blah blah blah but yeah...fi can look fe if it has the same result perhaps.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #45
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    some people adjust better to different situations, this adjusting naturally to different situations is what they are like. if someone doesent understand it and thinks that they are faking who they are, they just dont really understand the person
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  6. #46
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    i operate from a place of empathy...equality...the well being of others is just as important to me as my own...treat others as you believe everyone deserves to be treated and all that
    That's not Fe anymore than it is Fi though. Which says nothing about adaptation. Being nice to others is not the same as adapting to the crowd you're placed in.

    I think people are confusing Fi can look like Fe if it has the same result with a Fi user can look like a Fe user if he/she has the same impact. We are not just our Feeling functions though. Fe and Fi are different. Fe is about the group, more so than the individual (Fi). Just because we are Fi users doesn't mean, that we are always using Fi in every situation.

  7. #47
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    wasn't actually saying that it was feish...i place more importance on the individual than i do a group...but i prioritize in an unbiased manner based on what i think is right...i treat others how i believe they ought to be treated and it has nothing to do with the influence of others. i think you're misunderstanding...it's not adapting to a group...it is more like being inspired..in a ne way...or np way maybe...i suck at mbti shit but it's like improvising...going with the flow...different people bring out different sides...with one of my sisters i'm goofy as shit...like a clown...always jokey and making her laugh and around the other i'm more inclined to get into deep discussions...more serious and very rarely silly...it's the same with friends.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #48
    Senior Member Moiety's Avatar
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    Exactly. It's more about using Ne.

  9. #49
    Senior Member professor goodstain's Avatar
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    one size doesn't fit all
    everyone uses every function about evenly. take NE for example. if there are those who don't use it much, then why are there such massive amounts of people constantly flowing through Wallmart with 20 items or less?

  10. #50
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moiety View Post
    My first post was relating to how obvious the adaptation you mentioned (in the post I quoted) seemed to be to you. (sports crow - > active etc) My "does not compute" comment was expressing surprise. Yes, Fi allows for pretty much any value, but more often than not, Fi users are characterized by being very independent from context in that way. This does not mean I'm saying you suck at Fi or anything. But that maybe you're not engaging on Fi some of the times you do that. Notice I said maybe. The fact that I need to explain this pisses my own Fi off (as if I have to defend myself when I didn't do anything wrong in the first place, and it was all a matter of no-benefit of the doubt interpretation). We use 7 other functions. If a ENFP can go with the social currents, it doesn't mean he or she is using Fi when he or she is doing that.
    yeah, i see what you mean. but i tend to believe we're using all our functions at once, just in different orders/amounts/layers - or at least, our mental systems are so affected by our function use that it's impossible to act without the influence of any function. so it's weird to me to, at any point, think i'm not engaging Fi. basically my whole ethical system is mediated by Fi, so even if i'm being outwardly people-adaptable with Fe, i think there's still a Fi drive running somewhere to provide base reasoning why i can be outwardly people-adaptable without subverting my own ethos. i guess where i saw you doing something "wrong" (please don't take this offensively, it was just my perception at the time, i'm totally neutral currently - but just for the sake of understanding) was that you pointed out a negative without any positive to balance it. that, to me, reads as "not nice." maybe to you it was just an inconsistency in an idea i had, not something about me personally, so it doesn't apply to me? to me, that whole post was about myself, so i felt like you were applying that inconsistency to me personally. which i suspect is generally where Fi > Fe/ F > T sensitivity comes from...

    It wasn't about me not understanding like I explained previously. Besides, I didn't say anything overtly offensive in any of my posts towards you. "Does not compute", for example, is not a super ultra serious way of phrasing things, which should hint you that I'm not making a big deal of whatever it is that I'm saying. Besides I'm not the most serious person in the world. I guess I should start using more smileys in my posts.
    lol. maybe. yeah, like i said before, i just read it as a kind of "boop boop fail." i actually don't think the joking manner was unclear... but it actually made it worse for me, because it just seemed like mockery! humor fail on my/our part i guess :/

    Who said anything about wrong or right? Who am I to tell you what to do? Do you think I'm that stupid to waste my time telling people what to do in such matters? I want to discuss. I love to analyze social situations. If I ask and ping-pong it's to probe.
    haha, i dunno, some people just like being jerks for the fun of it. and a lot of people like telling others what to do. it is the internets after all... hard to tell people's real intentions... sorry i misjudged.

    A function does not a man make. Besides, being a TP doesn't make one a dick or wrong. Even if it did, I don't see the point in getting defensive (nevermind the fact there's no good reason for it) if someone IS being a dick. Just ignore that person. But I'm pretty sure as an ENFP, you like to communicate and understand people, so Ti needn't rile you up.
    oh, nah, i don't mean TP makes someone a jerk or wrong. more like someone being TP makes me more likely to think that they're trying to be a jerk when they're actually not. i live with a pair of Ti doms (INTPs), and what just occurred between your POV and mine is very similar to what often occurs between the Ti doms and me - you were coming from a neutral stance and pointing out inconsistencies, i mistook it as a personal attack, and you were offended by my defense. you'd think after years of living with them i'd have learned better, but i guess it takes a lot for each of us to overcome our own perspectives. at least i can see the pattern now. you're right that it needn't rile me up - it's hard when the subject matters to me, though, you know? i feel like if i don't address a perception that's off - if i don't get to the truth of something - then i'm just perpetuating disharmony. and my emotion tends to piss people off, though i don't really get why. anyway - i think that's a really interesting Fe-Fi difference. Fi > Fe people are probably more likely to argue about something because they tend to think that harmony is better achieved once everything is out in the open, instead of creating external harmony that might be "disguising" underlying internal conflict. whereas my Fe dom best friend would probably argue that external harmony soothes internally. both are ultimately true, i guess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moiety View Post
    Exactly. It's more about using Ne.
    haha yeah i agree.

    and actually, i think Ne + Fi undertones ends up looking a lot like - if not often ends up engaging - Fe.

    i have this idea that sometimes function combinations can slide us into other functions... like primary Ne + Fi usage, if used heavy on iNtuition and focusing on Fi internal issues, can slide me into using Ni via a more comfortable path than just engaging Ni out of the blue. and Ne + Fi used heavy externally but in reference to people can slide me into Fe. what i wonder is how you can tell when it's really Ne + Fi or if it's actually Fe. or is there even a purpose in wondering about the difference, because the functions are just theoretical anyway?


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