User Tag List

First 1234 Last

Results 11 to 20 of 51

  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w3
    Socionics
    INFp
    Posts
    283

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eclare View Post
    Hmmm....good question. I think you can always ask, and I think it will most likely be appreciated. It shows that you have an understanding of their needs, which most INFJs crave more than anything.

    I guess it really is situational, but I don't know how someone looking at it from the other side would be able to tell without knowing a whole host of other details. I would say from my own point of view that if you have to ask, it's not a doorslam. Doorslams usually involve the words "please don't contact me again," or some variation. If they've just disapeared for awhile, they'll most likely find their way back in time. If they've done anything that seems out of character and even remotely hurtful, they've slammed the door.
    Is it always commenced verbally or indicated in some way as it's happening? Or does it sometimes just happen without warning?

    If someone was to confront the INFJ about the doorslam, would the INFJ be willing to discuss it or confirm that it did indeed happen? Or generally no?
    4w3 sx/sp? INFP, INFp

  2. #12
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eclare View Post

    Ironically, in my experience we are great mediators and can help two arguing people work things out by helping them communicate their thoughts in a way that is both frank and tactful. It is only when it comes to our own emotions that we have such a hard to communicating our true feelings, and it has little to do with our actual powers of communication and everything to do with our fear of coming across as too demanding or bad natured. At least that's the way it is in my case.
    Yes, absolutely. I think it's like taking diplomacy to an extreme. I think a classic INFJ is an extremely good mediator and diplomat. To be perfectly honest, I think it's one of the things I excel at - one of the few things I might sometimes blow my own trumpet about

    But then...sometimes it can cause damage to the relationships we care the most about. I think the too subtle > too blunt thing is by far the most likely to happen with someone you care deeply about. You want them so badly to understand you, so you figure they must pick up on those ridiculously subtle hints and messages. You also don't want to hurt their feelings or put strain on the relationship or make them think you're neurotic or demanding, or or or... And finally it's all too much. Then bam. Bluntness to the max.
    Female
    INFJ
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


    I DOORSLAMMING

  3. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    139

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheEmeraldCanopy View Post
    Is it always commenced verbally or indicated in some way as it's happening? Or does it sometimes just happen without warning?

    If someone was to confront the INFJ about the doorslam, would the INFJ be willing to discuss it or confirm that it did indeed happen? Or generally no?
    In my experience, an INFJ is going to be most comfortable conveying this information in writing. We are way more comfortable expressing our emotions in writing because while I think we can identify emotions very quickly, it takes awhile to figure out exactly how to express them to other people. Also, we don't make these kinds of decisions lightly, so we often need to write out our thoughts in order to examine them more closely - almost like a list of pros and cons. "Why do I want this person in my life vs. Why do I want them out of my life." We are emotional people, but we take a very intellectual and pragmatic approach to our own emotions.

    Thinking back on my prior answer, I actually don't think that the distinction between the doorslam and needing space is that well defined. What often happens is that we slam the door for a period of time, often months or longer, in order to give ourselves the opportunity to process and grieve. Then, after a few months, once we've been able to do that, we may very well be willing and able to enter back into a renewed frienship. I think to the other person it may seem like we're doing a complete 180, but I think we need time to figure out how to adjust our expectations of the other person and once we've done that we can appreciate what the other has to offer.

    Here's an example. In college I had a good friend that I would basically talk to or IM with every day for at least an hour or more. We became more and more flirtatious over time and after several months we finally got together. The relationship was insanely brief, and after only a few weeks he broke it off, telling me that he just couldn't think of me romantically, blah blah blah. For a couple weeks I tried to be mature about it and remain "friends" with him, but finally the pain of his cluelessness was just too much so I emailed him and told him that I basically never wanted to speak to him again. And for about six months, there was absolutely no contact between us whatsoever. Finally one day, I was procrastinating at the library and I just thought "I wonder what J is up to." So, I sent him an email saying I was done being mad and did he want to grab lunch.

    He was pretty taken aback, but we actually fell pretty easily into a new dynamic, and to this day - 10 years later - he remains one of my best friends.

    So, to answer your more immediate question, confronting an INFJ about their doorslam when they're not ready to talk to you will probably give you an answer, but it won't be very satisfying. They would have to be self-aware enough to really understand what the doorslam is, first of all, and even if they do they will likely just say "Yes. I'm sorry. I don't want to talk to you anymore for the reasons I've already given." If you wait long enough and the INFJ has cooled down sufficiently, they probably will be able to talk about it in more detail. But I think you're best bet when you're faced with that situation would be let them know that you understand how that feel, and that they need time away from you, but that you really value them and you hope that you can work things out in the future. But do NOT ever push an INFJ to reconcile before they are ready. Always let them make the first move, otherwise we will become resentful and much less likely to ever get over it.

    I hope this is helpful.

  4. #14
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,088

    Default

    I think eclare and Silkroad nailed it - INFJs do care very deeply about those close to them and how they are perceived by those people. They don't want to be whiny or demanding. They distrust fickle emotions that may vary and change depending on perspective, tiredness, information, annoyance, frustration and so on. In ignoring those small individual emotions and trying to meet others more than halfway, I think it is sometimes easy for us to have a bigger underlying tidal wave slowly creep up on us. We aren't aware of how much all those frustrations affect our overall feeling until we are overtaken by the enormity of it.

  5. #15
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    4,128

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    But then...sometimes it can cause damage to the relationships we care the most about. I think the too subtle > too blunt thing is by far the most likely to happen with someone you care deeply about. You want them so badly to understand you, so you figure they must pick up on those ridiculously subtle hints and messages. You also don't want to hurt their feelings or put strain on the relationship or make them think you're neurotic or demanding, or or or... And finally it's all too much. Then bam. Bluntness to the max.
    I have felt and written about this, too. The dissatisfaction from desperately wanting (expecting?) people to operate the way that I do: to decipher the code and offer up that understanding that the other craves. (presumption? )
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    I want people to reach me, but they can't really. I want them to give me what I need instead of what they need. But now I realize that is kind of impossible for them to know, and I'm not sure I can even say what that is.
    If this is akin to what the others are experiencing, then it would seem that way lies only frustration, hence the blunt outbursts described.

    In my personal case, I recognize that it is unwise to cling to the expectation. I'm working on realizing why I have these feelings and what is behind my personal paradox of longing to be known yet being so difficult to know.
    the formless thing which gives things form!
    Found Forum Haiku Project


    Positive Spin | your feedback welcomed | Darker Criticism

  6. #16
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eclare View Post
    In my experience, an INFJ is going to be most comfortable conveying this information in writing. We are way more comfortable expressing our emotions in writing because while I think we can identify emotions very quickly, it takes awhile to figure out exactly how to express them to other people. Also, we don't make these kinds of decisions lightly, so we often need to write out our thoughts in order to examine them more closely - almost like a list of pros and cons. "Why do I want this person in my life vs. Why do I want them out of my life." We are emotional people, but we take a very intellectual and pragmatic approach to our own emotions.
    Pragmatic approach to our emotions - yes! It can be very frustrating though. There have been times in my life where I have been in utter emotional turmoil. Someone has really hurt me - but intellectually I'm able to enumerate in an almost cold point by point way why it happened, how it happened, how this person is bad for me, etc etc. Yet, emotionally I'm still a mess - I wish I could actually CONTROL the emotions with the pragmatism! Sometimes I think the intellect and the emotions are like beach balls bouncing off in different directions.
    Female
    INFJ
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


    I DOORSLAMMING

  7. #17
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sp/sx
    Posts
    3,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    In my personal case, I recognize that it is unwise to cling to the expectation. I'm working on realizing why I have these feelings and what is behind my personal paradox of longing to be known yet being so difficult to know.
    Yes.

    Whether or not INFJs are the desperately complex creatures that many seem to think - I just don't think I'm that hard to understand but maybe I'm wrong about that. In any case I can't expect people to read my mind. Perhaps I need to take that more on board. But then I REALLY don't want to err on the neurotic/demanding side.
    Female
    INFJ
    Enneagram 6w5 sp/sx


    I DOORSLAMMING

  8. #18
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    139

    Default

    Pragmatic approach to our emotions - yes! It can be very frustrating though. There have been times in my life where I have been in utter emotional turmoil. Someone has really hurt me - but intellectually I'm able to enumerate in an almost cold point by point way why it happened, how it happened, how this person is bad for me, etc etc. Yet, emotionally I'm still a mess - I wish I could actually CONTROL the emotions with the pragmatism! Sometimes I think the intellect and the emotions are like beach balls bouncing off in different directions.
    Yep. That duality between what we think and what we feel is incredibly frustrating. My incredibly wonderful and talented therapist will ask, whenever I get upset, what I'm feeling. Invariably I start to give her an analytical answer about what I think is going on, and she'll stop me and say, "No, what are you FEELING right now." And it always takes me a minute to get past the way I think I'm supposed to feel down to what it is that I'm actually feeling.

    Whether or not INFJs are the desperately complex creatures that many seem to think - I just don't think I'm that hard to understand but maybe I'm wrong about that. In any case I can't expect people to read my mind. Perhaps I need to take that more on board. But then I REALLY don't want to err on the neurotic/demanding side.
    I used to think this about myself, too. I thought I was straightforward and an open book. It's taken me a really long time to realize that this is simply not the case and that most people really prefer that you let them know what is going on in your head. As far as being neurotic/demanding I think that one thing that is hard for us (certainly for me) to get past is that because we find it so difficult to say no to requests, we assume everyone else will find it difficult to say no to us. In reality, this usually isn't the case. If we express a need or desire and someone else is unwilling or incapable of providing it, they'll usually just say so and move on. More often they'll probably be very happy to know what it is that we want/need and even if they can't provide it at that moment, it's information that they can use to help us out in the future.

  9. #19
    Senior Member mochajava's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    478

    Default

    fidelia In ignoring those small individual emotions and trying to meet others more than halfway, I think it is sometimes easy for us to have a bigger underlying tidal wave slowly creep up on us. We aren't aware of how much all those frustrations affect our overall feeling until we are overtaken by the enormity of it.
    Dead on, and beautifully stated!

    eclare: I thought I was straightforward and an open book. It's taken me a really long time to realize that this is simply not the case and that most people really prefer that you let them know what is going on in your head.
    I know you're right, but I still think it's unreasonable that people can't stop and think? Or just look at your face? The people who have known me best can read me... though my INTJ husband can't, and I really, really hate it. I know this isn't a helpful resentment and sometimes I just have to shake him and say, "listen to me! I need to be listened to right now." (that's basically how things work in his family -- he clued me in. So I have to do that with him / his family members... though it takes a lot of energy, so I only usually bother doing it with him. I suppose I want my other relationships to be a little easier).

    Another thing I've found is that people from my ethnic background (South Asians) whether in the US or back in India, are incredibly good at reading the emotional state of people around them. When I set foot in India, I get better at it too. This sounds silly, but it's actually not. There, it's incredibly important for getting things done and maybe even survival in some cases. Also, people are more expressive with their emotions and are MUCH more likely to say what they think, ask personal questions, give you advice, heckle you. In fact, the idea of boundaries / personal space that exist so strongly here don't exist there at all.

    Here, immersed in American culture (that's where I'm typing from), we seem to view emotions as a sort of burden (look above -- we talk about wanting to control our emotions, how we're "supposed" to feel, etc) and I think that colors how we relate to them. It also colors how much others feel like they need to deal with our emotions, and I think this is partly why the onus is entirely on the person with feelings.

  10. #20
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Posts
    139

    Default

    Another thing I've found is that people from my ethnic background (South Asians) whether in the US or back in India, are incredibly good at reading the emotional state of people around them. When I set foot in India, I get better at it too. This sounds silly, but it's actually not. There, it's incredibly important for getting things done and maybe even survival in some cases. Also, people are more expressive with their emotions and are MUCH more likely to say what they think, ask personal questions, give you advice, heckle you. In fact, the idea of boundaries / personal space that exist so strongly here don't exist there at all.
    This is a super interesting point. I would be very curious to know if there is a significant shift in the ratio of personality types in different cultures. There are plenty of cultures where showing any kind of strong emotion is very much frowned upon. As a result, I suspect people adapt by learning to be extra conscientious about subtle cues. And I'm definitely not an expert on any foreign culture, but my very limited understanding is that some cultures have developed very elaborate rituals for interaction that communicate what the person is thinking.

    I think mochajava is partially correct in that within America culture some emotions are considered a burden or a sign of weakness. But I also think that showing other emotions is viewed as a sign of strength. Emotions such as anger and exhilaration are valued when they are perceived to be sort of masculine and combative.

Similar Threads

  1. "Here's Proof That Tween Girl Halloween Costumes Are Way Too Sexed-Up"
    By Rasofy in forum Politics, History, and Current Events
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 11-01-2014, 01:11 PM
  2. [E8] 8's and w8s- Being too blunt?
    By BlackCat in forum Enneatypes
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 03-13-2011, 05:12 PM
  3. [INFJ] INFJ, inner life a little too rich?
    By littledarling in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 02-18-2009, 02:23 PM
  4. [MBTItm] Woah, you're reading way too much into it
    By ThatGirl in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 56
    Last Post: 01-28-2009, 06:34 PM
  5. [INFJ] INFJs do you do this too?
    By r0wo1 in forum The NF Idyllic (ENFP, INFP, ENFJ, INFJ)
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-02-2009, 11:03 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO