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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    What I do want to say is that if we focus on specific false premises they become our manifestations in this reality. .....

    It is truly from within that when we stop trusting within we stop trusting without and when we stop trusting we become further disenchanted and believe that because the world is designed to function entirely away from the functionality of who we are then we are expressing in a down regulated way and our body affects our thoughts then.
    The Law of Attraction. Amen. Labels *may* only serve as general guidelines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    We are strange creatures that don't naturally fit into society
    Society put Hitler in power. People are idiots. Embrace your infp-ness. The important people in your life will treasure you.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Once the INFP realizes, hey, I'm not simply a panda, I can be many things, then they feel less threatened by externalities and will let more people in (the ego broadens, to encompass more). I know I've realized at times in my life that I was clinging to what I saw as factors in my identity & that these were quite frivolous. I didn't need these things to define me, or I could be more than them, and when I realized that, I was more open to others, as they did not threaten these aspects anymore. Basically, the INFP realizes that being himself & connecting to others are not mutually exclusive.
    Amen. Think positive and think possibilities. You are not defined by a label or these forums. I think humans are the most highly evolved species on the planet because they can show love and compassion and be altruistic. That is the epitome of an infp (if you do want to label yourself) and I love you.

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Synapse View Post
    What I do want to say is that if we focus on specific false premises they become our manifestations in this reality. .....

    It is truly from within that when we stop trusting within we stop trusting without and when we stop trusting we become further disenchanted and believe that because the world is designed to function entirely away from the functionality of who we are then we are expressing in a down regulated way and our body affects our thoughts then.
    The Law of Attraction. Amen. Labels *may* only serve as general guidelines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    We are strange creatures that don't naturally fit into society
    Society put Hitler in power. People are idiots. Embrace your infp-ness. The important people in your life will treasure you.

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Once the INFP realizes, hey, I'm not simply a panda, I can be many things, then they feel less threatened by externalities and will let more people in (the ego broadens, to encompass more). I know I've realized at times in my life that I was clinging to what I saw as factors in my identity & that these were quite frivolous. I didn't need these things to define me, or I could be more than them, and when I realized that, I was more open to others, as they did not threaten these aspects anymore. Basically, the INFP realizes that being himself & connecting to others are not mutually exclusive.
    Amen. Think positive and think possibilities. You are not defined by a label or these forums. I think humans are the most highly evolved species on the planet because they can show love and compassion and be altruistic. That is the epitome of an infp (if you do want to label yourself) and I love you.

  3. #53
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    i luuuvvvv yooouuu go out and conquer the world with your love and understanding. humanity needs it.

  4. #54
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    There can very much be an elitist or self-righteous aspect to it, yes. Once again, it's the INFP's problem. It's also indicative of a narrow ego, an ego that feels threatened easily. Back to the panda, the INFP does not want to give up the unique identity, or the safety of the panda cage (e4 or 9, respectively), because it's maintaining their identity. Once the INFP realizes, hey, I'm not simply a panda, I can be many things, then they feel less threatened by externalities and will let more people in (the ego broadens, to encompass more). I know I've realized at times in my life that I was clinging to what I saw as factors in my identity & that these were quite frivolous. I didn't need these things to define me, or I could be more than them, and when I realized that, I was more open to others, as they did not threaten these aspects anymore. Basically, the INFP realizes that being himself & connecting to others are not mutually exclusive.


    To me, this paragraph addresses the whole crux of the matter and rather well. It reminds of one part of a enneagram 4 description I strongly responded to (and its the best one I've ever read):

    As Fours become more fearful that they cannot find a solid identity in themselves, they begin to create one out of whatever random tendencies they find. Thus, matters of taste, likes and dislikes, and emotional reactions become the materials which Fours use to construct an identity. Because their sense of self is so tenuous, however, Fours begin to put a great deal of weight on what would be for others relatively unimportant traits. ("I only wear black." "I listen to Puccini, but never Wagner.") It is important to note that most of these personal traits function by negation. Fours may not know who they are, but they certainly believe they know who they are not. While these idiosyncrasies can be fairly harmless in and of themselves, as Fours increasingly depend on them to figure out who they are, they begin to paint themselves into a corner. In the interest of maintain a narrowly defined self-image, Fours may refuse to engage in many basic activities necessary to live their lives. ("Poets don’t work in an office.")
    (Emphasis mine)

    I think e4 INFPs do try to separate ourselves from certain people and activities in order to define ourselves. While I didn't consciously recognise that I did this, this has been something I have been working to overcome, and have been better for it.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  5. #55
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    ^ Great passage...that's definitely it for me. I can fall into the trap of defining myself by my tastes. There can be a disdain towards those who I see as having lesser taste. I got over my music snobbery some years ago for the most part, but I still feel traces of it now & then. It's a very lazy way to establish identity too; you're really just stealing, and it amounts to nothing unique at all. You know this deep down too, and then fear of being uncovered as some fraud just reinforces the tendency to keep people at a distance. The integration of 1 qualities helps you create an identity based on real merit, things you've actually accomplished yourself, not just stuff you like & want to be associated with to assert how different you are. Really, only then do you rise above the cliche anyway.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #56
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    ^ Great passage...that's definitely it for me. I can fall into the trap of defining myself by my tastes. There can be a disdain towards those who I see as having lesser taste. I got over my music snobbery some years ago for the most part, but I still feel traces of it now & then. It's a very lazy way to establish identity too; you're really just stealing, and it amounts to nothing unique at all. You know this deep down too, the then fear of being uncovered as some fraud just reinforces the tendency to keep people at a distance. The integration of 1 qualities helps you create an identity based on real merit, things you've actually accomplished yourself, not just stuff you like & want to be associated with to assert how different you are. Really, only then do you rise above the cliche anyway.
    Yeah I have been/am a music and film snob. I realise its rather lame but its hard for me not to cling to such things. You're so right about it being an attempt to steal others' artistry and claim for yourself. The description I quoted actually advocates e4s create artistic works for this reason; to cultivate and communicate a true self rather than merely an amalgamation of others.
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  7. #57
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    something, something other something...!

  8. #58
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    This thread has taken an interesting turn in the last few posts, esp. from you two, Southern Kross and OrangeAppled. Those are some great posts and quotes about how we INFPs have a tendency to box ourselves in with our dislikes or in our attempts to define ourselves. That has certainly applied to me in the past.

    I would just like to point out that creation and accomplishment aren't by themselves necessarily a fix. On the positive side, creation and accomplishment do improve self-confidence and they are more "positive" than defining oneself by negatives alone. But on the negative side, one can still engage in snobbery about what one has created/accomplished compared to others (engaging in one-upmanship). And one can still feel like a fraud or even question one's own creations/accomplishments when comparing notes with others who have done the same things as you (it raises questions like "Was my experience as genuine as theirs, did I do it as well as them"), leading to distancing oneself from the very people you would relate to best--those with whom you have common points of interest. In other words, if creation/accomplishment are done too narrowly (such as by working for years to become an expert in a narrow field), that can end up boxing us in as well.

    If you want to talk about the best ways to keep oneself in touch with others and be genuinely interested in them, I think it boils down to just that--staying in touch with others and being genuinely interested in them. In other words, I think it's a useful exercise to take an interest in what other people do even when their activities or interests seem boring or corny or tiresome. That is: approach people, find out what they're into, let them mentor you in it for a bit, and then join them in their activities or interests (try them out first-hand) in order to find out for yourself what the attraction might be.

    I whole-heartedly agree with the point that, at our worst, we INFPs can construct our identity out of random tendencies and arbitrary likes and dislikes. So if it's all kind of arbitrary anyway, then I find that it's fun to deconstruct parts of my identity at times and more or less turn it on its head: Take a break from my current interests, and instead seek out and experiment with the very kinds of things that I used to think were low-class or stupid or boring. I set out to find the attraction in things that I used to think were unattractive or even repellent.

    I realize that's kind of an aggressive approach. And I realize that it can be taken to extremes, as in seeking out degradation or being destructive. But really I'm not talking about anything quite that drastic. I'm talking about just trying out mundane things that I had previously shunned, like watching sports, trying to improve myself at public speaking, trying out new computer games or new technologies, learning to dance, taking a scuba-diving or skydiving class, etc. In other words, broadening my horizon in mundane but still-challenging ways.

    Also, like I said above, I ask other people who are interested in those pursuits to mentor me and put up with me as a beginner. It helps me to connect with others (because most people like to mentor), and it gets rid of any need to distance myself from others out of fear of being a fraud (since it's hard to be a fraud when I've already admitted that I don't know what I'm doing and need help). Really, the hardest part is simply swallowing my pride, admitting to others that I'm a beginner at something, and asking for help. But as I do it over and over at different things, I get used to it. :-)

    And then, of course, as I try out lots of new things, I also increasingly get the positive benefits of creation/accomplishment in the broadest sense of those words. That is, the very process of broadening my horizons to that degree gives me a sense of accomplishment and greater ease with the world at large.

  9. #59
    That's my name biotch! JoSunshine's Avatar
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    I think that people of all types can fall into the trap of defining themselves externally (God knows I've been guilty myself) although I do notice that 4's seem to have a long list of small things (rather than a short list of broad things, e.g. money, status, popularity, etc).

    I have a friend who I feel certain is a 4 who drinks tea rather than coffee. I mostly drink coffee, but sometimes enjoy tea in the evening and always have a variety on hand. One day a offered her a cup of tea, telling her of all the flavors I had. She became genuinely despondent and said, "But tea is my thing!" We had a whole conversation about how she felt like drinking tea, dressing artsy, changing the spelling of her (common) name so no one else would have the same name as hers, listening to British punk, etc is what made her different and special (and maybe even "better"). I guess my drinking tea took away from her uniqueness in some way...at least in her mind. It seems to be a very slippery slope to create an entire identity based on things that are so precarious, especially because she is a special person for reasons so much more profound than a box of tea.
    "Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. " - Dr. Seuss
    I can't spell...get over it

    Slightly ENFJ, totally JoSunshine
    Extroverted (E) 52.5%........Introverted (I) 47.5%
    Intuitive (N) 65.63%..........Sensing (S) 34.38%
    Feeling (F) 55.56%............Thinking (T) 44.44%
    Judging (J) 51.43%............Perceiving (P) 48.57%

  10. #60
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    I think society tends to show preference to EST's. INFPs and ISFJs are the two types that seem to be most at odds in different ways with society. They can both get bulldozed, but in different ways. Extroversion is definitely a benefit as is being a "T". I'm not sure about S or N, but I think it is better in the larger world to be a Sensor. J's also have a type of advantage, but it is pretty difficult to impose trouble on ESTPs. I think they do okay.

    /over-generalizations
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

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