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  1. #31
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    I love your poster, skylights.

  2. #32
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    I'd also like to add here, after further reflection, that some people also don't appreciate how OUTWARDLY emo or even dramatic ENFPs can be, and if we're dogs, well...some people are annoyed by dogs, they need too much attention.

    I'm not trying to be glib or offensive, I'm just pointing out that ENFPs get flak too. I'm sure every type does for some reason.

  3. #33
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    I like the poster too Skylights - I've seen it around on the internet before. Its one of the few motivational posters I actually like. Usually when I read them I want to vomit or throw things in rage
    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    ^ I see what you're saying, but I know that for me, when I am down, such messages are patronizing. They do not comfort me, toughen me up, or wake me up. They just reinforce the feeling of being misunderstood. Everything in that poster is PHYSICAL. It has nothing to do with connecting to other human beings.

    Also, problems are relative. There are things I am used to that people of a higher socio-economic class would struggle to deal with, and things I've struggled to deal with as it was not "normal" to my life & culture. It's not comforting in that moment to know someone else has even less. Sometimes in retrospect it helps to put your life in context of the world, but in that moment, no, it just seems dismissive. When you get into the non-physical realms, it really becomes hard to say who has it worse & who really deserves sympathy (and is it a competition?).
    Oh I'm so with you.

    I find most motivational messages galling and infuriating. They're cloying and insultingly oversimplifying of what are complex emotional issues that aren't necessarily in my power to easily change. The thing is I am genuinely committed to thinking more positively and motivating myself already (despite how hard things can be) but this does only so much to change my mood. Its like being on a hard-core exercise regime yet being unable to lose any significant weight then having someone tell me I need to exercise more.

    But then I find most attempts to (as you said, OrangeAppled) comfort me, toughen me up, or wake me up are rather misguided and insulting. I don't know if there is something wrong with me; this stuff just doesn't work on me at all - in fact, it often has the opposite effect.

    However this (anti-)motivational message always cheers me up:

    Remember, when you're having a bad day and people are winding you up, it takes 42 muscles to frown, 28 to smile and only 4 to extend your arm and smack them in face

    I feel better already
    INFP 4w5 so/sp

    I've dreamt in my life dreams that have stayed with me ever after, and changed my ideas;
    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  4. #34
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Skylights, I understand your perspective, and do not disagree with the main points. I was simply pointing out that the technique used to make your point is often not very successful with an INFP. Obviously, some here liked it, but often such a message makes me dig my heels in, and I've heard other INFPs express the same sentiment.

    I also find that it's fighting negativity with negativity, and it's kind of irrelevant to the real emotional issue. Instead of pointing out that others have it worse, it helps if someone points out the INFP's personal strengths. My "wealth" in life has nothing to do with me personally, and everything to do with the circumstances I was born into. It's not any reflection of my value as a human. The OP feels, essentially, worthless. If anything, his worthlessness may make him feel he deserves such wealth less than the 75% of the world in poverty. The real issue then, is making him aware of his worth, without having to compare him to someone else (ie. ENFPs, or whoever).

    INFPs certainly don't have it worse than anyone else by default of their personality (and I think I said as much to the OP in another thread), but our strengths often aren't measured as other people's strengths are. It's the INFPs responsibility to learn how to communicate their strengths to the world, but it helps when others express their confidence in our ability to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    Somehow I'm reminded of this post in another "Woe is me"-type INFP Thread
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...l=1#post826457

    Edit : That whole thread is actually a quite interesting read. OA has several good posts.
    That post by saxman is like gold...what happened to that dude?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    I find most motivational messages galling and infuriating. They're cloying and insultingly oversimplifying of what are complex emotional issues that aren't necessarily in my power to easily change. The thing is I am genuinely committed to thinking more positively and motivating myself already (despite how hard things can be) but this does only so much to change my mood. Its like being on a hard-core exercise regime yet being unable to lose any significant weight then having someone tell me I need to exercise more.

    But then I find most attempts to (as you said, OrangeAppled) comfort me, toughen me up, or wake me up are rather misguided and insulting. I don't know if there is something wrong with me; this stuff just doesn't work on me at all - in fact, it often has the opposite effect.

    However this (anti-)motivational message always cheers me up:

    Remember, when you're having a bad day and people are winding you up, it takes 42 muscles to frown, 28 to smile and only 4 to extend your arm and smack them in face

    I feel better already
    I think the wryness of that "anti-motivational" message works for some INFPs because 1) it sympathizes with their feeling instead of invalidating their feelings, but it also 2) puts the feeling in perspective. It shows the feeling is a bit ridiculous and dramatic, but not necessarily without any valid cause. It's a bit negative also, but the humor adds a "lightness" that can lead to positive thinking.

    I love Morrissey for that reason. In his lyrics, he mocks his own mawkishness; there is an intentional humor to it. It feels like he is sympathizing with every "weak" human emotion, yet shining light on how over-dramatic these feelings can be & the self-absorption they stem from. That makes me smile; that puts my problems in perspective. A dead baby joke might work just as well .

    Example:

    Park the car at the side of the road
    You should know
    Time's tide will smother you
    And I will too
    When you laugh about people
    who feel so very lonely
    Their only desire is to die
    Well, I'm afraid
    It doesn't make me smile
    I wish I could laugh

    But that joke isn't funny anymore
    It's too close to home
    And it's too near the bone
    It's too close to home
    And it's too near the bone
    More than you'll ever know ...

    Kick them when they fall down
    Kick them when they fall down
    You kick them when they fall down

    It was dark as I drove the point home
    And on cold leather seats
    Well, it suddenly struck me
    I just might die with a smile on my face after all

    I've seen this happen in other people's lives
    And now it's happening in mine...
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #35
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^ you've said it twice now, but i really don't think you do get what i'm saying. i feel like you've essentially patted me on the head, said that's nice, and told me to run along and play while you use me as an example to the class of how not to cheer up the INFP because my "tactic" was to use something superficial.

    oh well. god forbid an extravert have anything but superficiality to lend to the conversation. :rolli:

  6. #36
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    skylights, I apologize if it seems like we are belittling your efforts in trying to help the OP. Words typed in an Internet forum loses context and sound harsher than they really are. As others have already mentioned, your poster is much appreciated and I'd gladly use it as a motivation tool. In this rat-race of a world we live in, we need to be reminded from time to time how fortunate we are to have what we have.

    However, in the case of the OP where he is questioning his self-worth and is in a downward mood, this type of advice may not be the best at this moment of time. In my personal experience, instead of hearing "You are not worthless. You have more than many others", it will sound like "You may be bad, but there are others that are worse than you".

    To relate back to the panda/dog analogy, instead of saying "Dogs have their problems too", whilst true, perhaps a better response would be "Pandas have their strong points too. They're the symbol of the WWF! And everyone loves pandas!" Though that might not work for San Francisco Giants fans now I guess
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  7. #37
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    The post title is backward, it should be, INFP vs The World.

  8. #38
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    I thought the OP meant something like this

    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  9. #39
    Senior Member Synapse's Avatar
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    I could write why positives and negatives influence the way we think in a subconscious and then a conscious way however that would over complicate this. What I do want to say is that if we focus on specific false premises they become our manifestations in this reality. That is to say we start believing them and finding supporting proof that they exist through the eyes of others. And what that means is that we are assigning labels, labels upon our very essence and others and discriminating subtly in everything that happens like a subtle energy spike.

    This means it takes enormous energy to counteract our counter intuitive behaviour in the present reality that we find ourselves in and this deepens. Because we are constantly, in a hypnotic way, exposed to this kind of learning as the acceptable norm against the back drop of our own INFP sensibility. What that means is we adapt towards these other avenues and make them part of our identity. Which means we are transforming our essence and giving away our affirmations and assertions towards energies that undo who we are.

    And in that coping we adapt different sets of behviours, humours and boundaries. Which are in essence false premises because again they aren't really our own, we just think they are. After all who so ever learns of themselves knows themselves only when they have learned what they don't know of themselves. And what we don't know is that we are limited only by our lack of imagination and then we are the least likely personalities to be.

    We are neither any high maintenance nor any low maintenance then what our beliefs think we are. It is truly from within that when we stop trusting within we stop trusting without and when we stop trusting we become further disenchanted and believe that because the world is designed to function entirely away from the functionality of who we are then we are expressing in a down regulated way and our body affects our thoughts then.

    Our confusion starts expressing in the way our mind, body, spirit connects with our will. Who knows I rambled again.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    I just wanted to add this since it may provide some insight:

    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled
    Example: When I lost my job & my savings drained away quickly, my mom didn't say "Orangeappled, you shouldn't feel bad because everyone is losing their job right now. You just need to start looking for another job and keep a positive attitude." A lot of people would say that....however, my mom knows me. So instead, my mom said, "Orangeappled, in the long run, it's only money, and money and credit can always be re-earned. You have your family to support you, and you will find another job eventually because you are smart and talented." That put things into perspective & gave me encouragement without telling me my feelings were wrong or telling me to do the obvious.
    I completely echo OrangeAppled in what she says. The world seems ridiculous a lot of the time because it is appears so microcosmic that everyone ignores the macrocosm. I just want to add that, while I wouldn't really identify myself as a Christian, these verses always seem able to sum up my view of things in life, or of life itself:

    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 6:25
    Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 6:30-31
    Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith? Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew 6:34
    Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
    As I say, I find the notion of the Logos or the Monad/Henosis to be more appealing than the Christian term "God", but I think the sentiment still stands. I think the American phrase "don't sweat the small stuff" would be a fairly accurate reduction of this notion.

    Like it or not, we are the paladins of the world. We are those that fight doggedly for the causes of good and we pay the price. We are unflinching and therefore unmaleable and unassimilable. We appear arrogant and aloof because our outlook is not only an opinion but the way in which we live our life. We look down on those who have not chosen/are still deciding/do not think that having an outlook is beneficial in life however much we try not to act that way. We're difficult to get to know because we are aware that we're interesting and feel that we warrent the attention of others even if we don't seek it. People are at times jealous, and at other times infuriated, of our ability to treat those things which cause problems in others' lives - bills, money, status, etc. - with such utter disdain as to render them almost worthless. We take things to heart and are therefore maudlin and ebullient in equal measure, but never consistently.

    As Menenius says while describing Coriolanus in Coriolanus:

    Quote Originally Posted by Menenius
    His nature is too noble for the world:
    He would not flatter Neptune for his trident,
    Or Jove for's power to thunder. His heart's his mouth:
    What his breast forges, that his tongue must vent;
    And, being angry, does forget that ever
    He heard the name of death
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

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