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  1. #11
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown Ghost View Post
    .
    It seems like lots of people are trapped in some emotional state or another and because they believe it is oh-so-complicated and nobody could understand, they limit themselves to the emotional coping strategy equivalent of digging yourself out of prison with this:

    [spoon]
    How do you know you really understand their emotional state? What if it is more complicated than it appears on the surface? What if they are trying out more solutions than you see? Often, we don't know the whole story behind a person's low state. Assuming we do simply trivializes their feelings & makes them feel worse. Now they don't just have the original issue to deal with, but the idea that they are wrong for feeling at all.

    What concerns me is that I think these people are going to suffer from their emotional inhibitions for most of their life because they simply won't try something different.
    How do you know they aren't trying "something different"?

    They're usually so concerned about something that they don't realize it's something VERY SIMPLE they don't want to admit for some silly reason or another.
    What if you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg? Often, something seems simple to us from a distance because we don't know all the details. Upclose, it can be a lot more tangled.

    If we are speaking of NFs, our emotional states can often have little to do with what is immediately apparent. If I am upset about something, most people do not grasp why easily; I know because when they repeat it back to me, they get it wrong. It's not an issue of being complicated so much as misunderstood at times because I'm coming from an abstract angle.

    What's worse is they seek each other out for support and wallow in their problems as a group, confirming that everything is good (because we're all in this together!) when clearly they are not.
    I'm not sure what this is referring to....support groups often serve as safe places to vent, not an excuse to ignore problems. Venting is an important part of healing to move on towards a solution.

    As for being an NF thing, I find most NFs very private people, even the extroverts. I don't really see anything indicating that these people are NFs, although this is all very vague.... In any case, it's my knee jerk reaction to try to understand how someone feels from their perspective before assuming I know what they need to do. Whoever these people are, I don't agree with this approach towards them, but then I'm not even sure what you're suggesting, outside of belittling feelings you don't understand....?

    From the outside, I can't help but think they just need to take a break from things and see that we can all be summed up to a simple, single, whole consciousness (individually, of course) and the emotions involved can be dealt with easily this way:

    [tractor]
    Key words: "from the outside". Do you even really know the full scope of their problem? What if you're assuming the issue is XYZ when it's something else entirely?

    So what gives? Do these kind of people just like to suffer or do they really think these issues are so devastatingly complicated?
    Are you capable of feeling compassion towards someone even if something they feel is a foreign concept to you? I notice a common theme in ESFPs to dismiss anything they have not personally experienced or witnessed in detail. These same people get mad if anyone presumes to know how they feel. :rolli:
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    If we are speaking of NFs, our emotional states can often have little to do with what is immediately apparent. If I am upset about something, most people do not grasp why easily; I know because when they repeat it back to me, they get it wrong. It's not an issue of being complicated so much as misunderstood at times because I'm coming from an abstract angle.
    I think this is very true. We can appear to be getting emotional about something trivial, but it's actually about something deeper. At least I experience this.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yeah people want love, affection, and acceptance. Goddamn them.
    I'm only talking about one side of the complaining continuum (the overly self-pitying side). Chill out.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    I'm only talking about one side of the complaining continuum (the overly self-pitying side). Chill out.
    I really hate when I'm being totally flippant and some high strung person tells me to chill out.

    If you had read my original post, you'd see that I agreed with you.

  5. #15
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Blown ghost, if you're right-handed, have you ever tried to be a lefty for any extended length of time (or the reverse)? We're talking about a lifetime or extended duration of coping habits and preferences. Not so easy to change.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I really hate when I'm being totally flippant and some high strung person tells me to chill out.

    If you had read my original post, you'd see that I agreed with you.
    OK, um:
    1. Saying "chill out" is actually me being relaxed. :546:
    2. It's difficult to know if someone is using sarcasm or not over the internet.
    3. I can't actually tell that you agree with my position from your first post.
    4. Once again I'll say chill out--there's no need to hate on a Friday night...
    5. ...unless you're using your sarcasm again, which again, I can't detect over the net unless it's obvious.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    OK, um:
    1. Saying "chill out" is actually me being relaxed. :546:
    2. It's difficult to know if someone is using sarcasm or not over the internet.
    3. I can't actually tell that you agree with my position from your first post.
    4. Once again I'll say chill out--there's no need to hate on a Friday night...
    5. ...unless you're using your sarcasm again, which again, I can't detect over the net unless it's obvious.
    Are you an ISFJ?

  8. #18
    Senior Member Blown Ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    ...
    Right, sure, yeah. Whatever. Ultimately, though, It's all in your head. I suppose that is my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Metaphor View Post
    Blown ghost, if you're right-handed, have you ever tried to be a lefty for any extended length of time (or the reverse)? We're talking about a lifetime or extended duration of coping habits and preferences. Not so easy to change.
    I'm ambidextrous, but I understand your point.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blown Ghost View Post
    Right, sure, yeah. Whatever. Ultimately, though, It's all in your head. I suppose that is my point.
    I don't really get why things that are in your head are supposed to be small problems comparing to things that are outside your head. I've always seen it the other way around...

  10. #20
    Senior Member Eckhart's Avatar
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    People telling from outside that the "relevant subject" should get his/her ass up and do something about their problems because their problems are so simple and basically the "relevant subject's" emotions are not making sense, thus the person makes no sense, is nothing new but the usual case. Those people saying those things don't understand the other person, and they in fact don't (anymore) try to understand the other person.

    No one is sad because he wants to be sad. That's the first thing to understand, and that's why the "relevant subject" is not just lazy but in fact has a bigger problem which he cannot get out of the way alone, at least not at the moment. Even if the outside visible issue is by objective measure small, that doesn't mean anything about the issue in the head. If you don't understand that the issue in the head is at least as important to solve first too, such statements as stated above happen and then in fact it is better if you just leave the relevant subject alone, because you don't only not help the person but in fact make him/her feel even more defective by telling him/her that she makes no sense. The more often you get to hear that, the more you start to believe it, be it conscious or unconscious.

    How many of those people get actually a supportive hand, someone who wants to at least TRY to understand those people? Not everyone at least. The reason has to be looked in how relationships of people are valued. If you have a real friendship, it can help, and possibly you get out of your emotional state before it gets too much of an issue. Other people have only so-called friends who won't be ready to invest too much effort in understanding the relevant subject, and instead will ditch the person since there is "other people outside who I can just have fun without having to spend energy". You cannot blame those person, obviously; no one has the right to expect other people to do something they don't want, and if they don't want to hang around with people which don't make them feel good then so be it. Objectively it is not a great loss in the end, but it is not how it feels to the relevant subject necessarily. Often they will think it is their own fault, and feel even more defective.

    So the relevant subject is not only left with their starting issue, but now they are also left by their "friends" and have no help in sight. They will also lack social contacts probably, which is a new issue. Plus they feel defective for being left alone. It all sums up to a seemingly huge mountain of problems, and since mountains are hard to climb and it needs seemingly endless effort of energy to climb this mountain, it gets difficult to get over it. There is always a risk to stumble over a loose stone on the mountain so you fall down and have to start again from start, and you loose the will to try again more and more. It also gets more difficult to find back into social contacts, get to know people etc. the longer you lack it, since you lack self-confidence and had too much time to overthink everything, so you can not just do it simple and natural, and other people notice that, so they mostly won't be interested in hanging around with you anymore. In short, it gets nearly impossible to get out of it alone.

    Well, I wrote this all because to some extent I identify with this situation, and I imagine that it is like that for several people outside there too, since this is how our society works. I realized my problems are not unique but probably rather common. I also had already enough time to realize that I never had true friends and thus I don't have to feel bad they left me alone with my issues. Some of my original problems went away for the same reason. What is left is I am alone, and that I have problems to find back into having social contacts and getting to know people. That is enough trouble for me currently. I don't feel defective, and I guess I won several insights about myself in that time, and most likely I will win more insights in the future too. A helping hand would be maybe able to help me to get over my last problems, but I don't expect one. Maybe it will take some long time to get out of it for me alone, but that's how it is, and I don't need anyone telling me I should simply get my ass off.

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