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  1. #11
    Senior Member tortoise's Avatar
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    My INFJ ex-girlfriend was constantly giving people unsolicited advice!

  2. #12
    Senior Member JivinJeffJones's Avatar
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    I guess I tend to take an anthropologist's view on most people. I observe them in their natural habitat, doing the things they do, learn about them and I try not to interfere. Sometimes merely observing them interferes, but that's interesting too. And sometimes they want you to interfere, but who knows what sort of unintended ripple-effect that could have? So I observe and learn and empathize but try to keep my direct influence minimal. I think there are a few things at play there, but listing them would take too long.

    I'm much more likely to 'interfere' on the internet than irl though because I'm aware that here I'm just one more anonymous voice among many.

    ETA: I don't think I know "so much" anyway. I'm very prone to projecting and misreading correlation and causation. I also have difficulty judging scale.

  3. #13
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    People tend to be in trouble they want to be in. That's why I usually don't give advice. I do sometimes question their logic by asking questions so that they realize they are contradicting themselves. This needs the other person to be in a certain state, though. I can't do it if they aren't really listening and looking for someone to answer their problem.
    Yeah, I relate to this. I may feel I see some problem looming based on some perception of the non-visible workings of people - I know shit is going to hit the fan soon. I foresee negative consequences based on the course they're choosing. Most of the time, a person is already determined to go that route & you won't be able to persuade them otherwise, so instead of involving myself, I keep clear of the drama.

    If it's someone close to me, I may intervene with questions ("Are you sure this is the best approach?") to encourage them to reconsider or get a better understanding of why they're making that decision. More often than not, I just let it play out unless they directly ask me for input. It's their life to mess up & not my place to dole out unsolicited advice. Besides, I don't know always know that much, and there are times I am wrong because the whole picture was not visible to me. But yeah, I do shake my head & roll my eyes a lot when things do go bad as I predicted....I do that internally, I mean .
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Yeah, I relate to this. I may feel I see some problem looming based on some perception of the non-visible workings of people - I know shit is going to hit the fan soon. I foresee negative consequences based on the course they're choosing. Most of the time, a person is already determined to go that route & you won't be able to persuade them otherwise, so instead of involving myself, I keep clear of the drama.

    If it's someone close to me, I may intervene with questions ("Are you sure this is the best approach?") to encourage them to reconsider or get a better understanding of why they're making that decision. More often than not, I just let it play out unless they directly ask me for input. It's their life to mess up & not my place to dole out unsolicited advice. Besides, I don't know always know that much, and there are times I am wrong because the whole picture was not visible to me. But yeah, I do shake my head & roll my eyes a lot when things do go bad as I predicted....I do that internally, I mean .
    Yes to Nolla and OrangeAppled on this. That people tend to be in the situation they're in is very true. It's a learning experience for them, a path they need to take, and even if I can see the outcome, very often they cannot see that same outcome. If I were to tell them, they would likely brush it off. I'm very hands off with people, even when I'm very emotionally involved, because I strongly feel that an individual has to make their own decisions. And, it's a big AND, how do I know if I'm right? To tell them what I think might happen if they take a certain path is to disregard their decisions, what's good for them, on their own life path. I might feel I "know" but in reality, I might not know what is good for them. Only that person can make that decision. When someone gives me advice, I have already thought about it a great deal and made up my mind. It's often a case of "I'm in the situation I need to be in."

  5. #15
    Senior Member Rebe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chill View Post
    I've been having this issue. I know too much of others' strengths and weaknesses, some of which they themselves are unaware of.

    With people I'm close to, I can sense the self-conflicts they are having and even the results that could potentially come out of different courses of actions that are in their options.

    Unfortunately, it is just not sensible for me to approach these people telling them what would be best for them.

    Can anybody relate?

    Of course, it is a well known fact that only we know what's best for ourselves. Nonetheless, with certain people who do not understand themselves intimately enough, I'm always tempted to lay out the entire situation for them to see and then let them decide what to do, but only after they have a clear picture of the situation they are in.

    My questions are:
    How do you balance between not appearing too aggressive and self-righteous in offering your two cents and allowing others to have their own journey of discovery? Where do you draw the line and if you do take action, how would you go about doing it?
    Tough question. I go on the side of caution and respect other people's ... self-determination. This stems from my own desire. I hate it when people try to tell me what to do or give me their take on it. 1) I didn't ask for your advice or opinions. I have a rather strong know-it-all attitude. 2) If I need help, I will ask someone.

    If the advice is extended to me gently without the other person giving me heavy expectations, force, aggression, I will respond much better. I butter things up for people. Sometimes I use way too much butter, other times I use absolutely no butter (but that's very rare). I myself need to be enraged for that to happen.

    I think 'doing it gently' will soften the blow. Make sure you say that you are on their side and support them and care about them and that's why you're telling me so-so. Do it when it is important, but don't over-do it. Always let them come to you first. And if they are not coming and being really delusional and stupid, then you break it to them. No one likes to be told they're being stupid though so be careful who you are dealing with. Some people are more sensitive, others want a firmer approach.

    ALSO, sometimes people just want someone to listen to them rant, not give them advice. It's hard because I always need to point something out and I am not good with patting someone on the back and going, there there but ... they just need to talk and they won't listen no matter what you say.

  6. #16
    Senior Member tibby's Avatar
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    I was just talking about this with ISFJ. I think it's very common, this business. We always seem to think we know better. I relate to this, too. I just think people need to find and learn it for themselves, that's the only way. I will be there for them and offer what I can to help, usually just my attention, presence, questions and suggestions, but ultimately the responsibility is on the individual.

  7. #17
    Junior Member Chill's Avatar
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    Thank you y'all for your take on this issue.

    What I gather from everybody is that the most favourable approach would be to offer support/guidance in an indirect manner, innocently throwing in questions here and there to get them to really think for their own good? And if after giving my best shot, they still go down the problem-infused path (assuming my predictions are true), I should let it go and allow the entire drama to play out, whilst I stand by as part of the emergency rescue team sincerely offering help notwithstanding thinking in my head "Well, what did I tell ya?"?

    Please correct me if I'm wrong. I see the most unfortunate of circumstances unfolding this way and I can foresee the embarrassment that they would feel which would be akin to rubbing salt into a wound. I wonder then, how do I respond to the ensuing embarrassment on their part? How do I tactfully remain in the picture, or is it really not for me to think about?

    I do understand the concept of, "You can only control your own life and no one else's", yet, yet, with all the pieces I get about the whole picture, which I stumble upon, I need to seriously consider how I should best react in a worst case scenario.

    Thank you all again for taking the time to share your thoughts on this.

  8. #18
    Senor Membrane
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    Hmm... it's hard to tell without knowing any specifics... but if they are not going to ruin the rest of their lives with it or something, then it should be ok to try and keep discrete about advices. Maybe the question is, can you live with the fact that things do happen and you didn't do anything to stop it? And are the people you are talking about going to tolerate you telling them what to do? There are risks either way, I guess...

  9. #19
    Senior Member Eckhart's Avatar
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    I don't know, do I really know so much about other people? ^^

    Nah, I just keep things for myself. If someone wishes my opinion, then he will get it, otherwise I won't force myself on someone usually. When I was younger I might have had a bit more problems with it.

  10. #20
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sytpg View Post
    Yeah, it's fucked for NFs not being able to be vocal about their area of expertise (human nature) like other types are [able to be vocal about their own area of expertise] without having people giving you shit (since relationships are so personal a topic).



    how do i handle it?

    my expertise of knowledge, as sytpg calls it correctly.

    i find it more interesting to aks myself: why exactly am i "handling" it. how much of my energy goes into handling it.

    and how much good is created in the world, as a result of me handling it?

    i intuit that the rules of depression apply. you know how depressed people are also ashamed and hide their depression, intuiting that at the root of depression is a conflict with other's interests, at least in the perception of others, therefore others won't help.

    we will get some shit.

    but how bad is that, compared to the price our "handling" costs us?

    unless our talent is shit, the world would benefit from freeing it.

    i find that the problem is, that i can't take shit verry well.

    because i believe the shit.

    i am not confident. not standing in the truth with both feet. only tapping into it with one foot.

    if i could take shit, i would gain tremendously from being free and not having to handle myself, and the world would gain, despite being partially unaware of that gain.

    this posting is probably insane. i love it.

    okay, one thing that is not apparent from my thought chain: i belive that knowing is alive, it's wisdom and it's a lifeform, so if i would set it free, it would handle itself, not in the sense of supressing it self, but in a verry tricky and sensitive way. the tricky thing is what i can't emulate, if i (ego) insist on doing the handling, and the tricky thing is what i can't describe. you know how it makes a difference HOW you say something? it also makes a difference who you are. if you are your ego, you are not the wisdom. people want the wisdom but they feel your ego shoving it into their faces .... and that causes their ego to react, instead of causing their wisdom to take in yours. this problem can't be solved by handling, it requires a much deeper letting go.

    yeah i am full of shit

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