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  1. #31
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    They're not exact opposites, no, but they're not the same. Which is to be expected because they don't measure the same thing.
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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    They're not exact opposites, no, but they're not the same. Which is to be expected because they don't measure the same thing.
    I actually see a lot of similarity between Fi and Fe, with the exception of Fe being "anything goes" and Fi being more constrained and placid in the group environment. Everything else looks about the same as the MBTI definitions.

    What I don't understand - as someone who is by MBTI function theory an eNFP, no doubt (Ne/Fi/Te/Si) - why in Socionics I always test as either ENFp or INFj, which are both Socionics Fi as well (I have Fi in MBTI too...). It really doesn't make any sense to say the functions are opposing. They simply cannot be.

  3. #33
    Yeah, I can fly. Aleksei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I actually see a lot of similarity between Fi and Fe, with the exception of Fe being "anything goes" and Fi being more constrained and placid in the group environment. Everything else looks about the same as the MBTI definitions.

    What I don't understand - as someone who is by MBTI function theory an eNFP, no doubt (Ne/Fi/Te/Si) - why in Socionics I always test as either ENFp or INFj, which are both Socionics Fi as well (I have Fi in MBTI too...). It really doesn't make any sense to say the functions are opposing. They simply cannot be.
    They're not opposing. They're simply not parallel. Socionics functions measure interaction style, whereas MBTI functions measure cognitive attitude -- what you think, versus what comes out of your mouth. For example, I am an ESTJ ENFj; I love a raucous, cheerful atmosphere, and I'm quite good at creating it, but I tend to actually plan out what I'm gonna say for maximum impact, and in the process I usually force Ne to draw out zany ideas for me to use (my Ne is actually far weaker than it appears -- I'm not truly Ne dominant, I just really like Ne).

    So Socionics functions and MBTI functions = apples and oranges.

    Apples > oranges, incidentally.

    I did peg you for an Fi-valuer, incidentally. I think you could be ESI though, just because you seem a bit too direct for EII.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Teacher (Idyllic), ESE-IEI (Si-ESFj), SLue|I|, Sanguine-Melancholy
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aleksei View Post
    They're not opposing. They're simply not parallel. Socionics functions measure interaction style, whereas MBTI functions measure cognitive attitude -- what you think, versus what comes out of your mouth. For example, I am an ESTJ ENFj; I love a raucous, cheerful atmosphere, and I'm quite good at creating it, but I tend to actually plan out what I'm gonna say for maximum impact, and in the process I usually force Ne to draw out zany ideas for me to use (my Ne is actually far weaker than it appears -- I'm not truly Ne dominant, I just really like Ne).

    So Socionics functions and MBTI functions = apples and oranges.

    Apples > oranges, incidentally.

    I did peg you for an Fi-valuer, incidentally. I think you could be ESI though, just because you seem a bit too direct for EII.
    What's ESI?

    People IRL think I'm quiet and sweet, and the only time I become a motor-mouth is when I am comfortable and happy amongst friends, or if I'm under a great deal of stress. I'm not as confrontational in person AT ALL, and I'm actually not as sensitive as I appear to be on here, but I still feel empathy for suffering (like I love horror movies, but the world news upsets me). I can be VERY DIRECT IRL, but it's more in a situational necessity/cut the crap/self-defense sort of way...it doesn't appear on a daily basis, not by any stretch of the imagination...what I do on here is more like arguing for pleasure, arguing ideas...IRL I don't go around persuing arguments and many times I'll keep quiet just so I'll be left alone.

    When people watched my most recent video they actually remarked that I seemed very calm and also when people met me in person they were a bit surprised that I'm not the way I seem here.

    All in all, I like a lot of freedom, I hate structure, I like for people to be comfortable and informal...but then again, noise and chaos troubles me greatly, especially if it's an on-going thing. Noise and chaos is one thing at a party or in a night club, but it's completely unacceptable if it's in the place where I'm living.

  5. #35
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    ESI is ISFj (Fi-Se in Socionics though), and no, I don't think you're one. You're a Delta girl all the way :P

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    ESI is ISFj (Fi-Se in Socionics though), and no, I don't think you're one. You're a Delta girl all the way :P
    Yeah, I don't think I'm a sensor, I just don't. I lived in a dream world until I was in my mid-teens, walked around with my head in a book, used to dress up in clothes from different time periods in history, was often quite lackadazical (in the sense of sharply paying attention to the things around me) and I'm definitely more balanced as an adult, I think I have better grasp of S now than I did ten or twenty years ago, but not enough to make me a sensor.

    I also always test really high on N. Like the two letters I'm most sure of have always been NF. It's I/E and J/P that are more sketch.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    ESI is ISFj (Fi-Se in Socionics though), and no, I don't think you're one. You're a Delta girl all the way :P
    Although I will say Fi/Se is ISFP in MBTI, and it's really the only sensor type I would ever consider, so I'll give Aleksei that much. It's just that I would have to have extremely high Ni...

    Here's this conversation again.

  8. #38
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    From my understanding of socionics, I find the function definitions to not correspond to MBTI's (which I see as closer to what Jung meant, but socionics fans claim the opposite). I find them different enough to MBTI that Fi in socionics is not something I identify with, especially in the dominant position. This, coming from a proud Fi flag waver ; MBTI Fi, Jung's Fi, is ME. Socionics Fi sounds like a blend of Fi & Fe. There's too much focus on social protocol, and I agree with Aleksei (never thought I'd say that:P ) that it sounds incredibly "proper" in a way that makes me blanch.

    The IEI profile as a whole rings true for me, however, the Fe definition does not suit me either. The best overview of functions for me in socionics is ILI, which is humorous as it means a decent use of Te . I just don't think it's a type system that describes me well....

    Incidentally, this ENFp description reminds me of me in some of its concept, but I am much more subtle. I come up with creative solutions when backed into a corner, so that I am much more resilient than other people I see go through similar things; and I can be a weird mix of rebellious & obedient (I call it a "quiet rebellion"). It really just depends on whether Fi is being "activated".
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  9. #39
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    It's not social protocol. Try to get away from all of that stuff for a second, and just look at the terms Introverted and Extroverted.

    Do you convey moods, influence from other people's emotional standpoint, generate liveliness (even in a subdued way), build any kind of overt, inviting displays in your behavior? Fe. Are you feelings a little more internal, under the surface and do you try to make more personal connections first? Fi.

    That said, even if you aren't a feeler, and don't do either of those "well", the quadras are still broken down where even Ti or Te types value one of the F styles more.

    Beta ESTps and ISTjs appreciate the INFp and ENFj Fe. No matter what, the entire quadra is given to a lot of boisterousness, theatricality, outward expressions, louder type of social situations, etc..

    Alpha T types like ENTp and INTj aren't good at creating emotional situations themselves (although ENTps do reach out.. and indirectly need attention), but they appreciate their ESFj and ISFp friends who are more playful and relaxed.. the kind of people who create a lot of cozy Si-Fe parties or social situations. The Alpha quadra in general is lighthearted, likes some goofyness and laughter, group projects, and talking about pointless theorizing and movie tastes and art, and Ts appreciate a hug every once in awhile, etc..

    Deltas and Gammas are different than Alpha and Beta for being more Fi valuing..

    In the case of Deltas, their Fi is very philosophical and idealistic.. it seeks to make more serious close F connections in that manner. T types like ISTps, for example, generally don't loosen up in places where too many Betas or Alphas are (Fe), but they appreciate the closer, more in depth Fi connections that INFjs and ENFps bring up. The whole quadra has a certain air of quiet wisdom about it, be it F or T, is generally laid back, democratic, not overly excited, and yet practical in many ways too..

    Gammas are a little more materialistic, Fi, but with more of an emphasis with Se.. the connections are serious in the sense that discussions may revolve more around career goals (Ni), or how to enact them (Te) (not that that has anything do with traditionalism though). Groups are generally smaller than other quadra groups (possibly because of that Se-Fi.. it's restricts more involvement without good reason. Sometimes there's a lot of "us vs them" mentality going on).


    Anyways, I'm not even typed at the moment, so I have no place to talk. Just trying to point out that the difference between Fe/Fi is not as simple as "PC-ness".

  10. #40
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    The group thing throws me off too....I'm such a loner by nature that identifying a type through a group dynamic is almost impossible. I don't see myself in any of those or I see myself in all of them....it just depends on who I am with.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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