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  1. #31
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post


    Yeah, INFJs are presumptuous - they seem to J-scape (escaping or cutting off of possibilities) more than most Js. however, they have a pretty good talent of knowing when their own attitudes aren't to be taken seriously
    That's interesting, but can you elaborate? How is the escaping or cutting off possibilities (you mean like the infamous doorslam?) presumptuous? Do you mean that it doesn't take the other person's point of view into account sufficiently?
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  2. #32
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    naw, its like neural pruning. seriously. at some point, you just have to fragment off/sever out certain possibilities and contingencies.... finite information processing theory here.

    INFJs do that to an extreme, so they can devote 100% of their brainpower to their like top 5 family/friends/loved ones thats what i mean, its not POV related.

    but it has its drawbacks too that make them seem almost un-NF at times. the one INFJ i got to know very well confessed to me she wouldn't ever be with a latino man, for example. Nothing against them generally... just, wasnt interested in one romantically or w/e. That kind of presumption, the more uglier ones.

  3. #33
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nozflubber View Post

    but it has its drawbacks too that make them seem almost un-NF at times.
    As in cold and clinical, like Morgan le Fay just said? Yeah, I could see that.

    I think I see that in myself mainly when I've been pushed to a high level of frustration and exhaustion. I've been too lenient with someone, for instance, and they have taken the proverbial mile when I've given an inch, and then I suddenly (or so it seems) become extremely rigid and even harsh.

    But even with general attitudes, such as your example above, I can kind of see it. We can be unexpectedly very narrow-minded on certain things, or at least so it might seem to an observer. I think generally I'm very open-minded and even open to being swayed (perhaps by the most eloquently written argument!) on many subjects. Then there are a few where I barely even want to hear an alternate viewpoint...I must admit...

    Maybe it's J "cutting off possibilities" to avoid being overwhelmed...
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  4. #34
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    "Maybe it's J "cutting off possibilities" to avoid being overwhelmed..."

    yar. Like i said, just think of it as INFJ Neural Pruning :P

  5. #35
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Neural pruning. I like that.

    Yeah, I think I do that sometimes. It's usually not without some extensively thought out reasoning behind it, but it is a little rigid I know. I don't know if it's so that I can concentrate my attention of a fewer amount of people. It's that I prefer preventative rather than reactive measures. Occasionally that means looking at probabilities of a situation reoccurring. If it is using up undue amounts of my energies with very little return, then I will usually make a decision about it. It is true that there is a small chance that it wouldn't go that way or that someone within a certain group wouldn't turn out to be bad, but the odds are against me enough that I think there are other situations or populations that I could tap into instead which are likely to yield a higher success rate.

    For example, I have been close to several people with addictions. I see that there are reasons why they became addicted. I like them as people. I recognize that some overcome theirs. I can see that they (like everyone else) need caring people in their lives who will love them through thick and thin. However, my interactions with them have advised me that if I am looking for a close friend or significant other, there are many other populations I could look into instead where the chances of us having a healthy relationship would be much higher. Does it mean I couldn't ever have a healthy relationship with someone who has had addictions in the past? No, but it's too great of a risk for me to want to take in that capacity. Sometimes it isn't even a matter of a value judgement on something or someone. It just is recognizing "This isn't for me" or "This is for me". I hate the trial and error method as life is very short and sometimes choosing one course of action closes the door to going back and taking another later on.

  6. #36
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I hate the trial and error method as life is very short and sometimes choosing one course of action closes the door to going back and taking another later on.
    I really need to get better at seeing when a relationship of one sort or another is heading in an unhealthy direction. And either ending (or severely restricting) it at a much earlier stage, when there is much less of an investment, or delineating things more clearly at an earlier stage in terms of what I can and can't deal with...etc. It would just save some pain for myself and others.

    Not that I've made huge mistakes of that sort a lot of times, I don't think. But just a few mistakes like that are enough for plenty of heartache and unwanted stress.
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  7. #37
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I agree. I think as INFJs get older we tend to be better able to draw those boundaries before we get to a point where we really have to restrict access after the fact or get so invested in something that isn't positive. A lot of that seems to be about experience and recognizing certain symptoms for what they are.

  8. #38
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    well it's obvious that our awareness is better constructed to judge what others do/need than what we ourselves need/must do. we can be rather centerless when having to make our own decisions and we need to have some training wheels from our ntp brethren to talk some sense into us and help us more effectively tell our story to ourselves. reasons are either too easy or too hard to come by, and putting them in order just feels fucking impossible.

    incorporating fidelia's suggestion about keeping in mind likelihood, probability, etc, i think is key in recognizing how to construct a healthy system in which an infj can thrive. without some scaffolding and some guidelines, we just don't know where to start, and we float around the outside of the social situation rather than finding the center (for us!) and giving due credit to it, allowing it to be its own form of truth rather than demanding it, from scratch, to justify itself over and above all other reasons/possibilities/competing values/ethical considerations.

  9. #39
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    You tried to get closer to him, but you don't get along with him when you're close, so you're backing off. That's the right thing to do. If he wants to continue being friends with you, that's up to his comfort level. Chances are, you'll be awkward around each other for a long while. If he is truly your friend, though, he'll understand that you are not comfortable with being super close and back off, too. If he isn't, he won't try to understand and won't want to be your friend anymore.

  10. #40
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    You tried to get closer to him, but you don't get along with him when you're close, so you're backing off. That's the right thing to do. If he wants to continue being friends with you, that's up to his comfort level. Chances are, you'll be awkward around each other for a long while. If he is truly your friend, though, he'll understand that you are not comfortable with being super close and back off, too. If he isn't, he won't try to understand and won't want to be your friend anymore.
    Yeah... It's always been an extremely push-pull friendship, which is not healthy. It was partly my fault because I had feelings for him and never really dealt with it and we never really got it out in the open. He'd sort of give me mixed messages and get very intense and almost relationship-y with me sometimes, (telling me I was the most important person to him in this city, etc etc) then pull so far back that he was barely polite with me next time he saw me (or polite in an uncomfortable way). And I was probably a bit push-pull too because I was a bit jealous, or else worried about seeming clingy. All rather unhealthy. I think we're unlikely to have any contact at all for some time. My guess is that if we do re-establish any it will be on a superficial/acquaintance level. And that's probably all I should hope for at this point...honestly not even sure if I should hope for that!
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