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  1. #21
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Does anyone react this way to being told a friend doesn't want to hear their problems anymore? My guess is he was highly embarrassed as a first reaction that he's been talking about stuff to a friend and the friend has been wishing he wouldn't the whole time. He had to save face. I mean, I can definitely identify with Silk Road, but it seems weird to expect him to be immediately contrite.
    Yeah, I hear you. I have had to take that into account and try to see it from his perspective. On the other hand, I put forth a big effort to say things like "I'm not trying to say you've been wasting my time by telling me about this stuff, I don't feel that way at all...I just have to step back now for the sake of trying to still be friends with you. You telling me about your confusion isn't helping you solve it, and it's not doing me any good." I don't know if he took that on board.


    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I do not know about the specific situation, but I have found it hard when a friend comes to me about the same situation for years and won't do anything to actually address the problem. I feel distressed when my friends and loved ones are distressed, so I can understand if they don't really want to change the way they are doing things, but that doesn't mean I'm okay with being repeatedly distressed by something that doesn't distress them enough to do something about, if that makes sense.

    Then if that same person, when I am having a problem, can't be bothered to listen to me, I definitely feel very hurt. I need to feel like the relationship is reciprocal to some degree and I need to feel appreciated if it can't be. Wish I didn't, but that is definitely an Achilles heel for me.
    ^Yeah...it's about this, to a large extent. And I'm not just being bitter/nasty when I say that this person talked to me at length about how confused they were, and I always tried to be sympathetic, offer gentle advice, etc etc...but when I tried to talk to them about my issues, they usually offered a quick pat answer (and then went back to their own stuff) or were dismissive.
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  2. #22
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    Awww, I see what you are saying. You are right, I can't judge SilkRoad's ex-friend's reaction. All I can say is that its an example of how painful it can be when the true nature of a relationship is revealed, in spite of what we desire it to be. Obviously that is working both ways here. So maybe everyone is presumptuous in his or her way. Personally, as an INFJ, I wish to see all the possible futures, know all the contingencies. But of course its not possible to do that - and its a kind of presumption to even try. The relationship is fragile, because the people in it each have their own fragility. Therefore there is no perfect plan to figure out. You never know how things will turn out.
    Makes you appreciate how special true friendships are
    All of what you say here is so true. I think I knew that on some level, however kindly I tried to be about it, what I was going to say to him was going to be at least somewhat hurtful. But I still felt like I had to do it.

    Honestly, this is someone who has hurt me many times in many ways...possibly because I left myself vulnerable to it...but still. And this time I had to hurt him - as much as I tried to be kind, diplomatic, reassure him of my friendship etc etc. I say "I had to", I really feel like I did. I didn't see any other option. Being involved in the situation was totally upsetting me. And I had reached the conclusion that my years of listening to him go on about how confused he was (and knowing this person, the confusion is largely born of selfishness and an inability to look beyond his own needs and wants) hadn't done him a blind bit of good. Maybe I'm wrong about that, but at the age of 30 he seems to be every bit as confused as he was at the age of 26, if not more so.

    So...the upshot might just be that some people are bad for each other, in any kind of relationship... (whether friendship or "relationship".) Sad but true...?

    Or...maybe I am just being "presumptuous" by saying things like "I had to hurt him"!!
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  3. #23
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    I feel that in your part you did the right thing especially when you had mentioned this: "at the age of 30 he seems to be every bit as confused as he was at the age of 26, if not more so."

    Nah, you're not being presumptuous. Afterall, the truth hurts, right? I mean, you have to protect yourself, too.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Lily flower's Avatar
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    You want him to leave you alone and told him all the things you think are wrong with him, and yet you want him to still like you and be your "friend"?

    Honestly, it doesn't work that way. Either you are there for people and they are your friends, or you do not want to be there for people and they are not your friends.

    It's perfectly fine to cut someone out of your life that is causing you problems and you can have some good boundaries with people who are your friends, but don't tell someone everything you don't like about them and expect them to still like you.
    Last edited by Lily flower; 10-05-2010 at 05:13 PM. Reason: =

  5. #25
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I do not know about the specific situation, but I have found it hard when a friend comes to me about the same situation for years and won't do anything to actually address the problem. I feel distressed when my friends and loved ones are distressed, so I can understand if they don't really want to change the way they are doing things, but that doesn't mean I'm okay with being repeatedly distressed by something that doesn't distress them enough to do something about, if that makes sense.

    Then if that same person, when I am having a problem, can't be bothered to listen to me, I definitely feel very hurt. I need to feel like the relationship is reciprocal to some degree and I need to feel appreciated if it can't be. Wish I didn't, but that is definitely an Achilles heel for me.
    I've read the same POV from other people, but to me, the message sent didn't resonate with such POV. Perhaps there wasn't enough information about weither or not the other person is too passive about resolving things, but it translated more into "I just can't stand anymore of this, I need to avoid it", and justification was short.

  6. #26
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    I've read the same POV from other people, but to me, the message sent didn't resonate with such POV. Perhaps there wasn't enough information about weither or not the other person is too passive about resolving things, but it translated more into "I just can't stand anymore of this, I need to avoid it", and justification was short.
    Just so you know, the whole message I sent wasn't included in what Vasilisa posted above or what I originally posted.

    It is a complicated situation which I don't want to get into in a high level of detail but it had to do with the person (over the course of a few years) repeatedly telling me how much he disliked a certain type of social scene we were both aware of and a certain type of mutual acquaintance - but in fact, spending most of his time with that social scene and those type of people. He had told me repeatedly in detail how much he disliked this scene and was going to do everything to avoid going back into it.

    The last straw that broke the camel's back for me, you could say, was when he reversed a bunch of decisions he'd taken and went straight back to that scene, without offering any real reasons for it. Or, the only reasons he offered were highly negative. Then when I got visibly frustrated about it, he pretty much said he didn't understand why I couldn't just be supportive, why I was taking it "personally", and why I was causing "drama". There was a total lack of understanding over how I might feel personally involved after he'd involved me for years.

    In the original message I did enumerate (as gently as possible - but I still did it) how he had repeatedly told me how much he disliked a certain type of person, and even specific people, and how he felt he'd changed and wanted to avoid that way of life, etc etc etc and that hence I could not remotely understand why he'd reversed all his decisions and everything he'd been telling me and had decided to go back to it.

    He does have a well established pattern of saying one thing and doing another, and especially in this area. I challenged him about this years ago and he said (verbatim) "well, I guess I'm kind of two-faced". Given that he'll be terribly charming with some of his "friends" in public, and then would tell me how much he disliked and disrespected them, it also made me wonder if he was saying similar things about me.
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  7. #27
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily flower View Post
    You want him to leave you alone and told him all the things you think are wrong with him, and yet you want him to still like you and be your "friend"?

    Honestly, it doesn't work that way. Either you are there for people and they are your friends, or you do not want to be there for people and they are not your friends.

    It's perfectly fine to cut someone out of your life that is causing you problems and you can have some good boundaries with people who are your friends, but don't tell someone everything you don't like about them and expect them to still like you.
    Well, one vote for presumptuousness, I guess.

    Maybe it is kind of like dumping a boyfriend/girlfriend, telling them all the reasons the relationship can't continue, and then saying you still want to be friends.

    I am also contemplating the possibility that I might be co-dependent... Even if I can't stand what a person is doing to me, I have a hard time with the idea that they might end up disliking me.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phobik View Post
    I've read the same POV from other people, but to me, the message sent didn't resonate with such POV. Perhaps there wasn't enough information about weither or not the other person is too passive about resolving things, but it translated more into "I just can't stand anymore of this, I need to avoid it", and justification was short.
    I was offering it as a possibility based on personal experiences that appear to not be uncommon kinds of experiences among others of my type and also some reading between the lines.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #29
    DoubleplusUngoodNonperson
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    so wait, is this about INFJs being _____, or that strange guy who seems creepy esfj???


    Yeah, INFJs are presumptuous - they seem to J-scape (escaping or cutting off of possibilities) more than most Js. however, they have a pretty good talent of knowing when their own attitudes aren't to be taken seriously

  10. #30
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Presumptuous? Yes, quite often. Also cold and clinical in a way that makes even me shudder.
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