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  1. #11
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    When it reaches that point, I usually end up distancing myself from the person. I think you're probably handling it the more mature way, but then you get a lot of fallout. :-D
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Trentham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    When it reaches that point, I usually end up distancing myself from the person.
    Yup.
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  3. #13
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    SilkRoad, I remember the exchange, and I recall it struck me as narcissistic on his part because he didn't acknowledge any of the feelings you confessed to him with a heavy heart. But, anyway, not to replay that. This is a bit random, but have you ever encountered people who only ever offer any kind of conciliatory or compromising attitude as a response to anger? I'm not saying that your friend is that way, just that it is an amazing phenomenon I have noticed in a few people. It's hard for me to relate to that way of being, but it takes all types, I suppose. Please don't interpret this as me suggesting you should cop an angry attitude with him. The situation just reminded me of that phenomenon that I have observed. Anyway, I'll let others answer the question about if INFJs are presumptuous.
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  4. #14
    Lay the coin on my tongue SilkRoad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    SilkRoad, I remember the exchange, and I recall it struck me as narcissistic on his part because he didn't acknowledge any of the feelings you confessed to him with a heavy heart. But, anyway, not to replay that. This is a bit random, but have you ever encountered people who only ever offer any kind of conciliatory or compromising attitude as a response to anger? I'm not saying that your friend is that way, just that it is an amazing phenomenon I have noticed in a few people. It's hard for me to relate to that way of being, but it takes all types, I suppose. Please don't interpret this as me suggesting you should cop an angry attitude with him. The situation just reminded me of that phenomenon that I have observed. Anyway, I'll let others answer the question about if INFJs are presumptuous.
    Hmm...I wonder if I am a bit like that myself. I do think my first reaction to the anger of others is to try and be conciliatory. (I wouldn't say this guy is like that. He has reacted in an angry and immature way to me before. This time it was more just petulant. The common thread is major immaturity, however.)

    My problem in that regard is, I think I pride myself on my diplomatic skills a bit too much. I tend to think that I'm pretty good at calming people down or at not rousing their ire, basically. The trouble is...if people get angry with/around me and stay angry, despite my best diplomatic efforts, I tend to conclude that a) I'm a bit of a failure because I couldn't calm them down, and b) they must be a horrible human being. And I'm sure that in most cases neither of those conclusions are very good at all.

    Dunno if that answers your particular question...
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  5. #15
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    SilkRoad, I remember the exchange, and I recall it struck me as narcissistic on his part because he didn't acknowledge any of the feelings you confessed to him with a heavy heart. But, anyway, not to replay that. This is a bit random, but have you ever encountered people who only ever offer any kind of conciliatory or compromising attitude as a response to anger? I'm not saying that your friend is that way, just that it is an amazing phenomenon I have noticed in a few people. It's hard for me to relate to that way of being, but it takes all types, I suppose. Please don't interpret this as me suggesting you should cop an angry attitude with him. The situation just reminded me of that phenomenon that I have observed. Anyway, I'll let others answer the question about if INFJs are presumptuous.
    Does anyone react this way to being told a friend doesn't want to hear their problems anymore? My guess is he was highly embarrassed as a first reaction that he's been talking about stuff to a friend and the friend has been wishing he wouldn't the whole time. He had to save face. I mean, I can definitely identify with Silk Road, but it seems weird to expect him to be immediately contrite.
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  6. #16
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    Well, in view of my particular situation with the SP friend, I wrote him an email today which included the below. Any comments? Of course it remains to be seen how he reacts.

    "Forgive me if any of this sounds condescending or accusatory or if I have misunderstood you. I know that we’re two very different people and we probably get each other wrong quite a lot. It’s just, I can’t help any more by listening to you talk about these things, not at this point in your life anyway. I get emotionally involved when people tell me about their problems and frustrations. It’s very hard for me to detach and I can end up exhausted and resentful if it seems one-sided. I also get upset when people speak and behave inconsistently. You seem really confused about a lot of things and I wish I could help. But talking to me about the decisions you’re trying to make doesn’t seem to have helped you make any decisions, and it’s just upsetting me and frustrating me at this point.

    I guess what I’m saying is, I still want to be there for you, and if I can help you with other things, or if you want to do something fun together, I would love that. If you make some decisions and you’re happy with how they work out I would like to hear about that too. But if you need to talk to someone about feeling confused or not knowing what to decide, it’s better if you talk with other friends who can detach more, or whatever. I think that will be more helpful anyway and it won’t create this tension between us. I am not trying to say that you’ve wasted my time by talking to me or anything like that. I don’t feel like that at all. I just feel like I have to step back for the sake of still having a good relationship with you."
    Quote Originally Posted by SilkRoad View Post
    My friend just wrote back to me and said this:

    "Well I really dont want to make it awkward or anything, but also dont want to put extra issues on your shoulder. I know i have things I need to work at...

    I guess in a open friendship I thought it was about expressing ones thoughts and feelings, i guess not and I have not been the best with personal relationships.

    So I guess we can call it here and see each other when we see each other..."

    I feel sad I don't think he really understood and I think I have hurt his feelings or he feels like I have abandoned him. It's the second part that makes me think that. I don't know if I will write back or what I could say. I might see him socially this weekend with some other people, but it will probably be awkward.

    It's so hard. I think this is someone who I am always guaranteed to have misunderstandings with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    Does anyone react this way to being told a friend doesn't want to hear their problems anymore? My guess is he was highly embarrassed as a first reaction that he's been talking about stuff to a friend and the friend has been wishing he wouldn't the whole time. He had to save face. I mean, I can definitely identify with Silk Road, but it seems weird to expect him to be immediately contrite.


    Thats just the way his response read to me, perhaps it is a face saving defense
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasilisa View Post
    Thats just the way his response read to me, perhaps it is a face saving defense
    I see a very hurt person who is trying so hard to save his dignity not his face.
    Because I don't quite think they are the same thing.

    I see a guy saying , wow I feel like an idiot for opening up, after all I thought that's what friends do.

    And this is not to blame Silkroad in anyway.. well for one, she is all class and she is concerned .

    But XNFJs have this way of making people feel special.. and then making them feel not special. I still haven't quite figured it out.. but I have been on both sides of it. Its confusing and hurtful whichever side you are standing on.

    And here is man who just had the wind knocked out of him..

  8. #18
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I do not know about the specific situation, but I have found it hard when a friend comes to me about the same situation for years and won't do anything to actually address the problem. I feel distressed when my friends and loved ones are distressed, so I can understand if they don't really want to change the way they are doing things, but that doesn't mean I'm okay with being repeatedly distressed by something that doesn't distress them enough to do something about, if that makes sense.

    Then if that same person, when I am having a problem, can't be bothered to listen to me, I definitely feel very hurt. I need to feel like the relationship is reciprocal to some degree and I need to feel appreciated if it can't be. Wish I didn't, but that is definitely an Achilles heel for me.
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  9. #19
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I see a very hurt person who is trying so hard to save his dignity not his face.
    Because I don't quite think they are the same thing.

    I see a guy saying , wow I feel like an idiot for opening up, after all I thought that's what friends do.

    And this is not to blame Silkroad in anyway.. well for one, she is all class and she is concerned .

    But XNFJs have this way of making people feel special.. and then making them feel not special. I still haven't quite figured it out.. but I have been on both sides of it. Its confusing and hurtful whichever side you are standing on.

    And here is man who just had the wind knocked out of him..
    Well, that's what I meant by saving face, but yeah. All this.
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  10. #20
    Symbolic Herald Vasilisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arclight View Post
    I see a very hurt person who is trying so hard to save his dignity not his face.
    Because I don't quite think they are the same thing.

    I see a guy saying , wow I feel like an idiot for opening up, after all I thought that's what friends do.

    And this is not to blame Silkroad in anyway.. well for one, she is all class and she is concerned .

    But XNFJs have this way of making people feel special.. and then making them feel not special. I still haven't quite figured it out.. but I have been on both sides of it. Its confusing and hurtful whichever side you are standing on.

    And here is man who just had the wind knocked out of him..
    Awww, I see what you are saying. You are right, I can't judge SilkRoad's ex-friend's reaction. All I can say is that its an example of how painful it can be when the true nature of a relationship is revealed, in spite of what we desire it to be. Obviously that is working both ways here. So maybe everyone is presumptuous in his or her way. Personally, as an INFJ, I wish to see all the possible futures, know all the contingencies. But of course its not possible to do that - and its a kind of presumption to even try. The relationship is fragile, because the people in it each have their own fragility. Therefore there is no perfect plan to figure out. You never know how things will turn out.
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