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  1. #41
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aelan View Post
    It seems to be a deep need to keep a white centre, where you could be still, calm, and untouched, in a way... but at the same time, there's a need to empathize with others, but also a kind of fear that the empathy would stain you?

    In contrast, the ENFJ would go out seeking to be stained, and find their meaning and reason for being in the colours, no?

    Yours would be to have a white centre with the colours swirling around, outside then?

    Makes sense?
    *nods* Yes I agree with that.. white centre... I need an internal framework setup before I can do anything. It's not just for empathizing with others... but also for handling pretty much everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    Oh! That's funny, because I say the *exact* opposite: I don't do empathy, I do sympathy. Empathy is what INFPs do, in my view: feel what the other feels, even when the other doesn't tell them how he feels. Sympathy is what I do: I can feel what someone tells me they feel, or what I imagine they feel, but I can't directly *know* what someone feels. But maybe I don't use empathy and sympathy in the right way?
    I dunno, somehow the word sympathy to me is passive... Hmmm subtle meaning behind words I suppose. Differences in connotations. But then again, I sit on the fence for J/P anyhow... so meh.

    Black ! I said "black", as in black box! Where are you coming from with your white center ??
    lol black box... I like black box too... It's a good description of what's inside an Ni dominant mind.

  2. #42
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Ah.. it all makes sense now.

    It is introverted intuition that causes/allows for this foresight and avoidance of unfavorable consequences in the future.. this why INFJs are so private with their inner world... I could never grasp what it was exactly.. it is Ni!

    This is why the two most mysterious types are INTJ and INFJ! They are much more aware of the information they are gathering through their Intuition.. and so they bear a burden of having to hold back, because they have been given reason to do so.

    Whereas a type like me, with Ne, it is a bit harder for me to judge character.. I tend to suspend judgment because I am not very good at it. But Ni must give you a whole lot of insight into others.

  3. #43
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    Ah.. it all makes sense now.

    It is introverted intuition that causes/allows for this foresight and avoidance of unfavorable consequences in the future.. this why INFJs are so private with their inner world... I could never grasp what it was exactly.. it is Ni!

    This is why the two most mysterious types are INTJ and INFJ! They are much more aware of the information they are gathering through their Intuition.. and so they bear a burden of having to hold back, because they have been given reason to do so.

    Whereas a type like me, with Ne, it is a bit harder for me to judge character.. I tend to suspend judgment because I am not very good at it. But Ni must give you a whole lot of insight into others.
    Well...I do think you've gotten to the heart of much of it.

    That said....I tend to be more careful/cautious these days, and try not to rely too much on it, and will sometimes try to suspend judgment and put aside initial conclusions for at least a bit...because quite frankly, I HAVE been wrong in the past. I think usually I have good insight into others, but the times I have been wrong have really hit me hard, shooken me up, and it's then taken me a long while to feel I can 'trust' my intuition again. Cause it's not always right.....

    On the other hand, there have been several instances where my intuition has been 'right' from the very start, but I have ignored it and given people a lot more chances, only to ultimately realize I would have been better off 'listening' to the Ni right from the start. :-)
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  4. #44
    mrs disregard's Avatar
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    Yes.. but just as an INTP finds sharpening one's Ti a lifetime process.. so will the INFJ with Ni. The point is.. you have the natural capabilities.. With me, I would have to expend effort, it is unnatural for me to be hyperaware with my intuition.. whereas, for you, it is always working for you, you only choose when to ignore or respond to it.

  5. #45
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    That said....I tend to be more careful/cautious these days, and try not to rely too much on it, and will sometimes try to suspend judgment and put aside initial conclusions for at least a bit...because quite frankly, I HAVE been wrong in the past. I think usually I have good insight into others, but the times I have been wrong have really hit me hard, shooken me up, and it's then taken me a long while to feel I can 'trust' my intuition again. Cause it's not always right.....
    The way I see it: our Ni insights are only as good as the information they are based on. Only problem is: because it's *Introverted* iNtuition, it's hard to know just what pieces of info it's been considering, and/or to force it to extend this basis. With Extraverted iNtuition, you can deliberately read more stuff, ask more people for their opinion, things like that. Not so with Ni, which makes it hard to know just how "grounded" an Ni insight actually is. Sometimes it's obvious, because Ni will "export" its findings to the "conscious" mind, showing what it linked together and how they just fit perfectly, but when this doesn't happen and Ni just delivers the finished product without explaining how it created it, it's harder to know whether to trust it or not.

    In my experience anyway

  6. #46
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana View Post
    Yes.. but just as an INTP finds sharpening one's Ti a lifetime process.. so will the INFJ with Ni. The point is.. you have the natural capabilities.. With me, I would have to expend effort, it is unnatural for me to be hyperaware with my intuition.. whereas, for you, it is always working for you, you only choose when to ignore or respond to it.
    Yes, I suppose that's true. No one ever said just because something is your primary function means you've 'mastered' it completely, or even that you EVER will!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering
    The way I see it: our Ni insights are only as good as the information they are based on. Only problem is: because it's *Introverted* iNtuition, it's hard to know just what pieces of info it's been considering, and/or to force it to extend this basis. With Extraverted iNtuition, you can deliberately read more stuff, ask more people for their opinion, things like that. Not so with Ni, which makes it hard to know just how "grounded" an Ni insight actually is. Sometimes it's obvious, because Ni will "export" its findings to the "conscious" mind, showing what it linked together and how they just fit perfectly, but when this doesn't happen and Ni just delivers the finished product without explaining how it created it, it's harder to know whether to trust it or not.

    In my experience anyway
    I think I'll have to ponder the whole Ni thing a bit more before I can respond to this...because to be honest, I sometimes don't even know what exactly I'm *doing* when I'm Ni'ing! I haven't thoroughly analyzed or broken down all of my thought patterns, etc. But what you write makes sense.

    My only immediate response is that my 'hunches' tend to be based off of a series of details/input, built over time, or even fairly quickly, if I factor in previous learnings and input-- and the combination of all of it together yields my impression. But to verbalize any of this would just seem completely ridiculous or off-the-wall to most people...you know, like, 'Oh, you're reading WAY too much into X or Y' - but truly, I tend to think one can read a lot into certain things, or rather, it's the combination of *many* things together that yields the impression/iNtuition (and yes, the things taken in individually wouldn't mean much - but it's the combo of the details that does it)...and to verbalize it would be impossible. :-) So perhaps that's another reason I tend to keep things to myself.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  7. #47
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    The way I see it: our Ni insights are only as good as the information they are based on. Only problem is: because it's *Introverted* iNtuition, it's hard to know just what pieces of info it's been considering, and/or to force it to extend this basis. With Extraverted iNtuition, you can deliberately read more stuff, ask more people for their opinion, things like that. Not so with Ni, which makes it hard to know just how "grounded" an Ni insight actually is. Sometimes it's obvious, because Ni will "export" its findings to the "conscious" mind, showing what it linked together and how they just fit perfectly, but when this doesn't happen and Ni just delivers the finished product without explaining how it created it, it's harder to know whether to trust it or not.
    It's a very sad thing... but all too true. I think of it as that Ni create many many links inside the mind to form a model. And that Ni insight arises when it comes up with a new pattern, or it simply find something that doesn't fit within the existing system. But the input is always inside the mind. You're never certain just exactly how much of what you came up with actually reflects what's out there in the real world. I think both Ni and Ne just delivers the results without explaining anything, however at least Ne is using what's observable in the world. Ni just pulls whatever from memory. I have a lot of difficulties trusting in my intuition because of this unknown. Although I really should give it more credit.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascademn View Post
    Yes, I suppose that's true. No one ever said just because something is your primary function means you've 'mastered' it completely, or even that you EVER will!
    +1... You're always learning... even something as familiar to you as your dominant function.


    My only immediate response is that my 'hunches' tend to be based off of a series of details/input, built over time, or even fairly quickly, if I factor in previous learnings and input-- and the combination of all of it together yields my impression. But to verbalize any of this would just seem completely ridiculous or off-the-wall to most people...you know, like, 'Oh, you're reading WAY too much into X or Y' - but truly, I tend to think one can read a lot into certain things, or rather, it's the combination of *many* things together that yields the impression/iNtuition (and yes, the things taken in individually wouldn't mean much - but it's the combo of the details that does it)...and to verbalize it would be impossible. :-) So perhaps that's another reason I tend to keep things to myself.
    I can't readily explain my intuition very well either. It's like Ni comes up with an answer... and I have to go back with Ti in order to figure out how I derived that, so I can explain it to people. If only I can say to them "because my Ni said so" and have that as a valid reason.

  8. #48
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    I *totally* know what you're talking about, Cascade !!

  9. #49
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wandering View Post
    I *totally* know what you're talking about, Cascade !!
    Ah..sweet!!! No need for further explanation!! INFJ's unite!!!!
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  10. #50
    Protocol Droid Athenian200's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightning View Post
    It's a very sad thing... but all too true. I think of it as that Ni create many many links inside the mind to form a model. And that Ni insight arises when it comes up with a new pattern, or it simply find something that doesn't fit within the existing system. But the input is always inside the mind. You're never certain just exactly how much of what you came up with actually reflects what's out there in the real world. I think both Ni and Ne just delivers the results without explaining anything, however at least Ne is using what's observable in the world. Ni just pulls whatever from memory. I have a lot of difficulties trusting in my intuition because of this unknown. Although I really should give it more credit.
    One thing I really don't agree with so much is that I don't know where my ideas come from. Sometimes it's based on something a bit far-fetched or unusual, but I can usually explain it. Occasionally I become aware of events as or before they happen by suddenly remembering various patterns at just the right time to interpret their meaning. I can always tell which patterns those were, though. People saying that Ni is "hazy" and hard to express like this is the one thing I always disagree with... I've always been fairly good at articulating my insights if I were asked to do so.

    So are you saying that Ni pulls Se from memory, in a way?

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