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  1. #1
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    Default INFJ - shaking things off

    there are times when something happens that's not necessarily hard to believe, but hard to accept. i can't stop trying to rationalize the situation and the people involved, to the point where it takes a couple hours/days to deal, but then i'm usually fine. it's just the initial hit that gets me, then i learn to accept the fact that not everyone makes rational decisions.

    this is what i'm currently having a hard time shaking: i know so many couples right now who are divorcing because of infidelity. this KILLS me... i feel so bad for the "victims" b/c they are all faithful, good people. they just married selfish people.

    how do people cheat? how do they live with themselves? how can they blatantly lie to their significant other? and on the flip side, how does the person who was cheated on even consider taking them back? isn't the trust destroyed? nevermind the fact that i think the constant image of the two of them screwing would be repulsive? come on... i just don't have it in me to do that... never have... and i've been in some really shitty situations. it's just so hard to shake these feelings off.

    how can i not let it get to me in the first place?

  2. #2
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    I sometimes wonder if all NFs have problems shaking things off, you know, things we react to on some fundamental emotional level, no matter if it's an Fi or an Fe value.

  3. #3
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    I don't really think I'll ever be one to shake things off. Maybe better at prioritizing my mental/emotional energy, but even then . . .
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    I don't really think I'll ever be one to shake things off. Maybe better at prioritizing my mental/emotional energy, but even then . . .
    that's what i'm working on. luckily it really only happens to me when people knowingly hurt others or play games... so that narrows my issues down a bit.

  5. #5
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    well, first of all, i'm sorry that you're having to watch that happen around you. it sounds disconcerting.

    i really start pondering things like this too sometimes, but i think trying to track down deterministic reason can be helpful in making it stop... i think ultimately people's decisions that seem overwhelmingly negative have rhyme and reason, and are not just irrational and chaotic, but rather have really deep roots in hurt and conflict.

    why did she cheat? because she was selfish. okay, but what does that really mean? we're all selfish in our own ways. instead maybe:

    why did she cheat? because she was feeling frustrated in her own relationship and was scared that she was spending her life on something mediocre and missing out on something spectacular. why was she feeling frustrated? because her husband hasn't been talking to her recently as much as they used to... so her husband might be a bit selfish too, really... why was her husband not talking to her as much? because he's been hitting a midlife crisis too and is worried he's missing out on something spectacular...

    i think a lot of times it's fear that ultimately drives our negative behaviors, and in that light it's a bit easier to see how someone might be driven to do something that, on the surface, looks so selfish and hateful. and then that partnered with human biological sexual desire is a difficult combination... an affair might start to look like a way out of a painful situation without hurting your partner but at the same time helping you figure out what it is you need and getting the emotional support that you needed. i think the core of all hurtful behavior is that someone is hurting somewhere and seeking to fix that hurt and not always attending to others because they are so caught up in that hurt - and they, ironically, end up hurting others in seeking to heal themselves.

    i think possibly part of why you're getting caught up is because of the absolute perspective - that the cheater is absolutely bad and the victim is absolutely good in the situation. i'm not saying that cheating is okay behavior, but at the same time, you're laying down a judgment that says "i would never think of doing that, so it is Wrong that anyone else ever would, and those people are selfish." but i think there are questions to ask yourself, like if i were driven to desperation in a psychological prison of my own creation, is it possible that this might start to look like a good escape? what if i thought this was a good answer and didn't understand the ramifications of how hurtful it could be until i'd already decided to leave my spouse? hindsight is 20/20... and then there's also all the social and cultural reasons behind why people marry in the first place, and sometimes it's too easy to overlook deep-seated personal issues that could really use addressing before deciding that someone is to be your permanent life partner. and then there's marriage in and of itself... do we really get married because it's the best idea or all the infinite relationship options we have, or do we do it because it's what we're supposed to do?

    perhaps the idea that humans generally want to do good but are fundamentally very conflicted in terms of what they want and need due to overlapping and contrasting biological and social and cultural and psychological desires, could help with accepting how someone could seriously mess up somewhere along the way.


    -
    that said, i get really pissed off at people who have little kids and cheat. i get really pissed off at anyone who does anything really damaging around little kids. you can hurt them in ways that will last for decades... :steam:

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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    well, first of all, i'm sorry that you're having to watch that happen around you. it sounds disconcerting.

    i really start pondering things like this too sometimes, but i think trying to track down deterministic reason can be helpful in making it stop... i think ultimately people's decisions that seem overwhelmingly negative have rhyme and reason, and are not just irrational and chaotic, but rather have really deep roots in hurt and conflict.

    why did she cheat? because she was selfish. okay, but what does that really mean? we're all selfish in our own ways. instead maybe:

    why did she cheat? because she was feeling frustrated in her own relationship and was scared that she was spending her life on something mediocre and missing out on something spectacular. why was she feeling frustrated? because her husband hasn't been talking to her recently as much as they used to... so her husband might be a bit selfish too, really... why was her husband not talking to her as much? because he's been hitting a midlife crisis too and is worried he's missing out on something spectacular...

    i think a lot of times it's fear that ultimately drives our negative behaviors, and in that light it's a bit easier to see how someone might be driven to do something that, on the surface, looks so selfish and hateful. and then that partnered with human biological sexual desire is a difficult combination... an affair might start to look like a way out of a painful situation without hurting your partner but at the same time helping you figure out what it is you need and getting the emotional support that you needed. i think the core of all hurtful behavior is that someone is hurting somewhere and seeking to fix that hurt and not always attending to others because they are so caught up in that hurt - and they, ironically, end up hurting others in seeking to heal themselves.

    i think possibly part of why you're getting caught up is because of the absolute perspective - that the cheater is absolutely bad and the victim is absolutely good in the situation. i'm not saying that cheating is okay behavior, but at the same time, you're laying down a judgment that says "i would never think of doing that, so it is Wrong that anyone else ever would, and those people are selfish." but i think there are questions to ask yourself, like if i were driven to desperation in a psychological prison of my own creation, is it possible that this might start to look like a good escape? what if i thought this was a good answer and didn't understand the ramifications of how hurtful it could be until i'd already decided to leave my spouse? hindsight is 20/20... and then there's also all the social and cultural reasons behind why people marry in the first place, and sometimes it's too easy to overlook deep-seated personal issues that could really use addressing before deciding that someone is to be your permanent life partner. and then there's marriage in and of itself... do we really get married because it's the best idea or all the infinite relationship options we have, or do we do it because it's what we're supposed to do?

    perhaps the idea that humans generally want to do good but are fundamentally very conflicted in terms of what they want and need due to overlapping and contrasting biological and social and cultural and psychological desires, could help with accepting how someone could seriously mess up somewhere along the way.


    -
    that said, i get really pissed off at people who have little kids and cheat. i get really pissed off at anyone who does anything really damaging around little kids. you can hurt them in ways that will last for decades... :steam:
    I'm definitely caught up in the absolute perspective when it comes to this... even though I know why they cheated. One woman cheated (numerous times) because she felt she was missing out and started looking for attention from other men. Her husband at the time was just comfortable... Instead of communicating her feelings to him, she eventually found a guy worth leaving her husband for. The couple have two small children... and they are both going through hell. (Her and her new bf have developed a liking for cocaine.)

    The other woman feels bad about herself and has since she was a child. She has told me the only way she feels acceptance is when she beds down with someone. She's cheated on every man she has dated or been married to... So she's got major issues that I tried to help her with for years, but she obviously hasn't dealt with any of it yet. I know we all have issues, but she has hurt SO many people in the process that i've lost all pity for her. (She also has a son.)

    So I do get it... but I definitely have lost a relative perspective on these situations b/c I feel that all of this hurt could have been avoided. Or at least they could have had the decency to end things before moving on.

    But who am I to judge, really?! I know people are conflicted... I do understand that. I just wish I could shake it off like the people around me. I'm definitely not perfect and I just wish I could separate myself from it. The hardest part was that I totally saw this coming for months...

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