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  1. #21
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    [Split thread to accommodate change in direction: MBTI and Partner Compatibility]
    Last edited by Ivy; 01-24-2008 at 08:00 AM. Reason: fixed link
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
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  2. #22
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    SO, after more pondering...

    Last night we had an event called the "Last Lecture" series. We had a history professor in his late 60s come and give us a lecture under the pretend assumption that it would be his last one ever. Part of his lecture included everything you do means nothing unless you have someone to share it with. For example, when we were little and made good grades on our report card we would run home to our parents so that we could show them.

    So I think my idea now is that love is not about all this passion and love-at-first-sight crap. Could it be that true love is someone that you can run home and share your life with because you know that they will listen and care? It doesn't have to be about them being perfect, it has to be about them wanting to form that kind of sharing symbiotic relationship.

    It seems rather obvious now that I put it in words, but I guess some things really don't make it through my head without me figuring it out on my own. Like when our parents say "you can do anything you set your mind to". It never occurred to me that it was true until I did it and figured it out for myself.
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  3. #23
    Large Member Ender's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    So I think my idea now is that love is not about all this passion and love-at-first-sight crap. Could it be that true love is someone that you can run home and share your life with because you know that they will listen and care? It doesn't have to be about them being perfect, it has to be about them wanting to form that kind of sharing symbiotic relationship.
    Thats pretty much the way I look at it. In the end all I want is someone to come home to, someone to share things with, somewhere to retreat and have someone I feel safe with there.
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    I don't want it, I just need it, to breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

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  4. #24
    Senior Member gretch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    SO, after more pondering...

    Last night we had an event called the "Last Lecture" series. We had a history professor in his late 60s come and give us a lecture under the pretend assumption that it would be his last one ever. Part of his lecture included everything you do means nothing unless you have someone to share it with. For example, when we were little and made good grades on our report card we would run home to our parents so that we could show them.

    So I think my idea now is that love is not about all this passion and love-at-first-sight crap. Could it be that true love is someone that you can run home and share your life with because you know that they will listen and care? It doesn't have to be about them being perfect, it has to be about them wanting to form that kind of sharing symbiotic relationship.

    It seems rather obvious now that I put it in words, but I guess some things really don't make it through my head without me figuring it out on my own. Like when our parents say "you can do anything you set your mind to". It never occurred to me that it was true until I did it and figured it out for myself.
    What a beautiful way to put it!!! I was thinking of the one advice I would give to any NF, and i decided that it's striking a beautiful balance with the trait that makes us search for greener pastures. i've heard that the great art that drives NF's is not tactical like the SP's art necessarily, but our life's work is making relationships lovely. This is a double edged sword as many of us become disillusioned in relationships and move on to make one fresh.

    I had found that once you find that green pasture that fits all of your ideals, you will soon find that it's not as green as you might have hoped. But, it's still the greenest pasture out there, and it's up to you to water it and love it and make it yours. So that's my advice, find someone with similar sensibilities who values the same kind of ideal in marriage and life, and put all that creative energy into making that relationship beautiful.

    Another tendency that some NF's might fall into is over idealizing people who don't deserve their regard. I did this one quite a bit. But it made me realize the greatness in my husband.
    A man is not idle because he is absorbed in thought. There is visible labour and there is invisible labour.
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    -Victor Hugo

  5. #25
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Yeah... I think I understand now. All my "tragic romantic" tendencies in idealizing a "perfect" partner was... too much icing and too little cake?

    I've always been scared of getting into a relationship and then seeing those greener pastures... but if I water and fertilize my own I could make it just as green. All it takes is two people willing to work for it.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by wedekit View Post
    Could it be that true love is someone that you can run home and share your life with because you know that they will listen and care? It doesn't have to be about them being perfect, it has to be about them wanting to form that kind of sharing symbiotic relationship.
    I think that NFs (or just INFJs? or just me?) have a tendency to overthink things like this. So careful and intent to making everything perfect that we overlook the obvious.

    It has always seemed significant to me that my best friend and I never planned on becoming best friends. We met in college and were first just neighbors in the dorm. Then we studied and hung out together. Then we shared the same friends. Then we decided to become roommates. As roommates, we kept doing more and more things together--growing closer and closer--until it dawned on us one day that we were "best friends forever." Neither of us had carefully evaluated the possibilities or chosen the other based on some kind of cosmic attraction. Neither of us would have dreamed of ditching the other just because another interesting girl happened along. I didn't love her because she was the most perfect best friend I could imagine; I loved her because of the relationship we had--because she really was my best friend. If marriage had nothing to do with sex, we would have happily married.

    I'm not sure why marriage is not treated smilarly--perhaps because it's taken in one big swallow: "till death do us part." Or maybe because we give it titles like True Love. What if we gave friendships titles like True Best Friend? What if we spend years interviewing people for the position of True Best Friend? What if we watched movies and read books and heard fairytales and told ourselves stories about people finding their One Best Friend? Then we'd probably be more likely to treat best friends as a treasure hunt--rather than a long-term relationship with substantial risk, work, and rewards on both sides.

    The quote above reminded me of that. The goal of a perfectly-perfect spouse seems as irrelevant as a perfectly-perfect best friend. What does perfection have to do with it? It's about the relationship: the sharing and coming home and commitment and all that.

    I'm rambling now.

  7. #27
    Senior Member wedekit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    I think that NFs (or just INFJs? or just me?) have a tendency to overthink things like this. So careful and intent to making everything perfect that we overlook the obvious.

    It has always seemed significant to me that my best friend and I never planned on becoming best friends. We met in college and were first just neighbors in the dorm. Then we studied and hung out together. Then we shared the same friends. Then we decided to become roommates. As roommates, we kept doing more and more things together--growing closer and closer--until it dawned on us one day that we were "best friends forever." Neither of us had carefully evaluated the possibilities or chosen the other based on some kind of cosmic attraction. Neither of us would have dreamed of ditching the other just because another interesting girl happened along. I didn't love her because she was the most perfect best friend I could imagine; I loved her because of the relationship we had--because she really was my best friend. If marriage had nothing to do with sex, we would have happily married.

    I'm not sure why marriage is not treated smilarly--perhaps because it's taken in one big swallow: "till death do us part." Or maybe because we give it titles like True Love. What if we gave friendships titles like True Best Friend? What if we spend years interviewing people for the position of True Best Friend? What if we watched movies and read books and heard fairytales and told ourselves stories about people finding their One Best Friend? Then we'd probably be more likely to treat best friends as a treasure hunt--rather than a long-term relationship with substantial risk, work, and rewards on both sides.

    The quote above reminded me of that. The goal of a perfectly-perfect spouse seems as irrelevant as a perfectly-perfect best friend. What does perfection have to do with it? It's about the relationship: the sharing and coming home and commitment and all that.

    I'm rambling now.
    No, no, no. You're not rambling. Everything you typed made perfectly good sense and I'm glad you wrote it. I do often look beyond the obvious and it's nice to have others simply things that I have thought too much about. Becoming my best friend's friend was very similar to yours. I didn't intend on being her friend at all; it just happened.
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  8. #28
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Faith, I think your post is wonderful, and I can speak for myself as well as my other INFJ friends when I say we tend to do the same thing - re. overanalyzing.

    I think you made some really good points.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  9. #29
    Senior Member Gen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    I think that NFs (or just INFJs? or just me?) have a tendency to overthink things like this. So careful and intent to making everything perfect that we overlook the obvious.

    It has always seemed significant to me that my best friend and I never planned on becoming best friends. We met in college and were first just neighbors in the dorm. Then we studied and hung out together. Then we shared the same friends. Then we decided to become roommates. As roommates, we kept doing more and more things together--growing closer and closer--until it dawned on us one day that we were "best friends forever." Neither of us had carefully evaluated the possibilities or chosen the other based on some kind of cosmic attraction. Neither of us would have dreamed of ditching the other just because another interesting girl happened along. I didn't love her because she was the most perfect best friend I could imagine; I loved her because of the relationship we had--because she really was my best friend. If marriage had nothing to do with sex, we would have happily married.

    I'm not sure why marriage is not treated smilarly--perhaps because it's taken in one big swallow: "till death do us part." Or maybe because we give it titles like True Love. What if we gave friendships titles like True Best Friend? What if we spend years interviewing people for the position of True Best Friend? What if we watched movies and read books and heard fairytales and told ourselves stories about people finding their One Best Friend? Then we'd probably be more likely to treat best friends as a treasure hunt--rather than a long-term relationship with substantial risk, work, and rewards on both sides.

    The quote above reminded me of that. The goal of a perfectly-perfect spouse seems as irrelevant as a perfectly-perfect best friend. What does perfection have to do with it? It's about the relationship: the sharing and coming home and commitment and all that.

    I'm rambling now.
    very wise faith

  10. #30
    ish red no longer *sad* nightning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faith View Post
    I think that NFs (or just INFJs? or just me?) have a tendency to overthink things like this. So careful and intent to making everything perfect that we overlook the obvious.

    ...

    I'm not sure why marriage is not treated smilarly--perhaps because it's taken in one big swallow: "till death do us part." Or maybe because we give it titles like True Love. What if we gave friendships titles like True Best Friend? What if we spend years interviewing people for the position of True Best Friend?
    ...
    The quote above reminded me of that. The goal of a perfectly-perfect spouse seems as irrelevant as a perfectly-perfect best friend. What does perfection have to do with it? It's about the relationship: the sharing and coming home and commitment and all that.
    Very true faith. Thanks for reminding me that.

    The expectations of the two, spouse vs best friend, are so dramatically different. Yet when you look at them. In the end, they're pretty much about the same thing. Sharing and commitment.

    What will happen will happen... why worry so much? Thanks for making me feel better. ^^

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