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  1. #1
    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    Default A very hedonistic ENFP (or an ESFP with an anomalous N)

    This is a conversation I have with a friend that I think is an obvious ESFP, though I think some strong presence of N is at play here, otherwise this conversation would appear too unconventional in my opinion.

    This is a conversation I swayed to my favor to see how much she's good in assessing people (because she claims that she is), without discussing any MBTI jargon. She hasn't heard of the concept, and she's merely stating things from an observant, THEORETICAL point of view, backed up by sheer experience in dealing with people. She already had been intimate with 30 partners, so really, she is as "SENSOR" as it can get. It's my way of thinking out of the MBTI box. It would be really nice to hear her thoughts of things.

    Initial note: Names are changed for obvious reasons. For most of the people we're discussing, I'm know their MBTI type.

    ______________

    ESFP: You'd always tell me that you have a huge crush on Didi (ENFJ), but I do see things quite differently.

    Me (ENTP): Really?

    ESFP: You don't have that much crush on her as much as you'd like to think.
    Me: How so?

    ESFP: For one, you don't seem to feel that much awkward at her presence. If you're actually smitten, it would show. But it doesn't.
    Me: You think so?

    ESFP: You envy her.

    Me: Huh?

    ESFP: See, you have this geek of a pretty girl, with a mega powerful social skill, seemingly able to glide her way through any social circle, doing it really really easily. And you secretly wish that you can do it too. LOL!

    Me: That's what you really think?

    ESFP: See, when you look at yourself, you'd know that you don't look bad. Ok, you're a bit on the chubby side, but that's tolerable. You know you have social confidence. You're ok with people. You even have an attractive girlfriend to boot, you just can't do it as good as Didi does.

    Me: ....

    ESFP:You know what, if you'd ever wish to a Genie that you'd be a girl for a day, you'd wish to be Didi. LOL!

    Me: ....

    ESFP: It's called admiration. Yeah sure, you may have a crush on her. Like everybody does. But not that smitten.

    _________________

    ESFP: But I have to tell you something. She's not that pretty. She's not top- tier pretty. You're seeing her from a geek's point of view. She's maybe the quintessential pretty woman from your POV, but from a point of view of jerks and bitches, she'd fall a second rate.

    Me: Why?

    ESFP: Ever noticed that my jerk friends never took the initiative on making a move on her, despite the fact that she was, at some point, regarded as that mega babe of our online community?

    Me: Yes.

    ESFP: She does attract a huge demographics. I know that. Here's the problem--she isn't really that sexual.

    Me: So where's the problem in that?

    ESFP: In the eyes of jerks, the first priority would always be the scantily clad bitches. Didi flirts good. Really really good. But unless there's a strong sexual undertone to that, she'll be viewed as a kid.

    Me: ....

    ESFP: It's like a demarcation line. We sexual jerks and bitches are the "adults". And you guys are the kids. =p

    Me: Ok.

    ESFP: See, if you look at all the guys that seriously made a move on her, or those that are seriously attracted to her, most of them are odd balls. Like the emos, the outgoing geeks, where you're included, and some other guys who are "space aliens", like Andy (INTJ). You guys are her true demographics.

    _____________

    ESFP: Hillary (a materialistic ESFJ), is a different case. She's not that pretty. Not even close to Didi. But she's a jerk magnet.

    Me: Why?

    ESFP: When a woman like her projects a facade of arrogance, almost projecting herself as that Alpha Female, you know she's hiding a truckload of insecurity--a very dirty closet. I know this because I am like that. Maybe all jerks and bitches are.

    Me:....

    ESFP: My jerk friends, Reagan (a mega egotistic ISTJ), and Billy (possibly a closet INTP wrongly stuck with sensor friends), never made a move on Didi but apparently, considered Hillary an easy target.

    Me: Why?

    ESFP: The insecurity that she tries to hide is her vulnerability that's tempting to aim.

    Me: Well, if you considered all of you in that circle as jerks and bitches, then all of you have major insecurities, and there'd be implosion in that social sphere waiting to happen.

    ESFP: Yes.

    Me: Is that something that you're already aware from the get-go?

    ESFP: Yes.

    Me: Then why stay with these people, have fling with them left and right, where you're barely able handle someone else's ego, and you know from the very beginning that there's an underlying manipulations involved.

    ESFP: It's the thrill of the guessing game. Everyone wants to guess who's manipulating who? :p

    Me: So what happens when it's just the rest of you guys in one place, where you need to talk about something without hurting each other's ego. What CAN you talk about?

    ESFP: It's a very very pretentiously CIVIL moment.

    _________________

    ESFP: See that's why my real friends include you (ENTP), Didi, (ENFJ), Andy (INTJ), Smith (INxP), and Jean (a really nice INFJ), among others. If I hang out long enough with my type, it'd be a major disaster. :P

    Me: Not every self-proclaimed bitch look for my type. I can be an anti-bitch myself. The only difference in your case, is that you have enough geekiness in yourself that can tie with me (a variant Ne?). Like for instance, talking about stuff like this. You have no idea how many shallow bitches hate "analysis".

    ESFP: I look for friends who help me improve. They make my real set of friends.

    Me: So we provide a security blanket?

    ESFP: Hey, I need to have balance. Like someone who'd tell me that what I'm doing is silly. Without sugarcoated statements. At least you're like that.

    Me: Admit it. You're a closet geek. There's more to you than the 30 guys you use as your bitchy bragging rights.

    ESFP: That's why they all enjoyed me, I guess. :P

    __________________

    Some more notes:

    My ESFP friend can easily distinguish and state articulately an ENTP from an INTJ.

    She's really bad in relationships. Really really that bad. As good as her wisdom and analysis are, her instinct and impulsiveness overrides a lot of things. And she changes mood by the minute.

    But for someone where the S overshadows her N, the N is incredibly strong. The ENFJ description is scarily accurate (despite that it's just a personal observation).

    As an ENTP, we're among the NTs that really do want to be social. At least, it helps us achieve our personal objectives. She's my first friend to really take a good note of that. No one did.

    Don't get me wrong though. I'm not here to underestimate an ESFP's intellect. I've talked to a lot of them. Even the smarter ESFPs I've talked to really really hate connecting the dots. They just aren't good at that.

    This got me thinking that my friend could be really an ENFP. But then again, if she is, she's won't be a conventional ENFP either.

    I'm happy with this conversation in such a way that it breaks significantly the party-girl ESFP notion, and the religious ENFP notion. She just don't fit anywhere in the stereotype.

    I'm posting this because this is the more concrete instances (interaction) I had where things aren't easily explained by conventional MBTI wisdom. I'd like to know your take on this.

  2. #2
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
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    What is "the religious ENFP" notion you mention?

    I'm curious as to why you think she's ESFP? Because she's sexual? She doesn't come across as and ESFP in that conversation, but an unhealthy ENFP who is in an STJ mode or and ENFJ. Something like that...
    http://bohemianextrovert.wordpress.com/
    Please excuse the long drawn out ramble above.
    I have to hear what I've said before I know what I think.

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  3. #3
    Senior Member You's Avatar
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    I find this shit fascinating. The chance to see into the social hierachy, watch it play out, people put it into words, and describe it in a fashion that is relatable to MBTI, but all this through experience, makes it worth the 1,000 + post of relaxed conversation. Personally, I don't have as big as a stake as id like in MBTI. It allows me to be more well rounded, and distance myself from the entanglements of typing everyone, everything, and finding some use for it in a more...practical manner. However, in this real life instance I've got to ask...

    Why assume she is unhealthy? She could be just young or immature. I'm spitballing ages here, but I'm not expecting anything above 24 in this social circle. Plus, ENFP is often more grounded; religion, spirituality or what have you are the sterotypes that insinuate iNtuition. They're just sterotypes, don't take them any further than that.

    P.S I find it funny that the INTJ comes across as a space alien.

    Id have to say though that she doesn't come across as very happy, and she may have a motive for saying you admire the girl more than you like her, but I'm speaking without any true context. Point is...I wanna see more from this discussion than just angelhair and my own two sense.
    Oh, its
    You
    ....

  4. #4
    Senior Member Cypocalypse's Avatar
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    I'm 28. She's younger by a year or two. Her very recklesness prevents me from typing her as NeFi. In this case Fi really restricts Ne's movement. SeFi is more accurate, in my opinion. Though i'm surprised to find someone that's too strong on both Se and Ne.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Wild horses's Avatar
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    HAHAHA mmmm... don't discard ENFp simply due to recklessness... When I am going into self destruct I can be extremely reckless.... I do have the deep spiritual yada yada side but some people who I run with when I'm in meltdown would very rarely notice it and some maybe quite shocked if it came up... I also come up with theories about groups etc and usually share them with people that I secretly like or at least feel very comfie and intimate with(So maybe Deja vu's comment is appropriate... could be more to this story than meets the eye)... which is a very small number as she describes.... I view everyone as a friend or a friend I'm yet to meet... but I have but a few confidants... They are extremely precious to me... I love it when they happen to be N too and I can go into this mode that she is here... I seem to have picked up lots of ESFJs so it's a bit of a different dynamic and I try and taylor my conversation accordingly!

    Mid night feast anyone!

    Anyways....

    Can't be sure.... it did make me laugh though
    ... couldn't drag me away

    Željko Ražnatovic: argus
    Željko Ražnatovic: do you want heir's?
    WildHorses: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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  6. #6
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    immature perhaps, but this person has one hell of a hold on the nuances of the socialite world. first thought was ENFJ, honestly. though no reason to discount ESFJ.
    Last edited by skylights; 09-22-2010 at 06:55 PM.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Blown Ghost's Avatar
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    Holy crap that was boring.I have to ask, how can you be around someone like that? must be exhausting.

  8. #8
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    oh yeah i forgot about commenting on the religious ENFP thing. when'd we get that reputation?

  9. #9
    Senior Member alexx's Avatar
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    The OP's convo is actually really interesting, I do not know people this blunt, open or cynical (or combination of all) so it's like peeking into another world.

    Whatever she is I don't necessarily see her as "unhealthy" - but the manipulation game for her is probably a forte.

    Games make me sleepy.

    89% Extroverted ~ 68% Intuition ~ 84% Feeling ~ 89% Perceiving
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    Se 30.4% Si 19.1% - Ne 38.4% Ni 26.4% - Te 23.1% Ti 20% - Fe 46.4% Fi 35.8%
    Sanguine | Phlegmatic
    Right Brain Dominant

  10. #10
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    first...just so i can make sense of it...is that conversation a translation from another language?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

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