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[ENFP] Upset ENFPs: Handle With Care

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
MBTI Type
xNFP
Instinctual Variant
sx/so
Look at this thread. Who got irritated? The INXXs, especially the INXPs. They think things out FIRST. So they assume you brought this thread to the table completely well constructed, giving your best shot. And they ripped it to shreds, calling it crap. You wanted to start a discussion about something to mold it in the process. This is the best example of where IN meets EN and just goes WTF??????
 

Jaguar

Active member
Joined
May 5, 2007
Messages
20,647
An addict has certain needs. Is there a no wrong way to treat an addict? This isn't a debate about moral objectivity; it's about the understanding that certain medicines help relieve symptoms and certain medicines exacerbate them or just don't treat them at all.

:redherring::redherring::redherring::redherring:
:redherring::redherring::redherring::redherring:
:redherring::redherring::redherring::redherring:
:redherring::redherring::redherring::redherring:
:redherring::redherring::redherring::redherring:
:redherring::redherring::redherring::redherring:
:redherring::redherring::redherring::redherring:
:redherring::redherring::redherring::redherring:
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
1,154
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w8
Well, I'm just wondering. Partly, because your type is so close to mine, but your behavior in this case doesn't make sense to me. If you just want to express something and don't need anyone to express it to, then you could just as well beat that punch bag. If you need to express it to one or several individuals, then you are trying to influence them in some way. Right? Communicating is to influence and to be influenced. Even if we are talking about weather.


I do want to discuss it with others. Otherwise I'd write a blog.

Bouncing my ideas off of others helps me to flesh them out.

It might be hard for an Introvert to understand the necessity of doing that, but it's typical for Extraverts to do it.


My primary motive for posting threads here is to flesh out my ideas.

Unfortunately, I don't do it often because there seems to be some unwritten rules about how to do it properly that I'm simply not understanding, or in some cases, refuse to submit to.

Which sucks, because I'm a very curious person who loves to engage others.

Hopefully, some day I will learn to navigate all the unwritten rules of etiquette on this forum without abandoning myself in the process.
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
MBTI Type
INFP
I do want to discuss it with others. Otherwise I'd write a blog.

Bouncing my ideas off of others helps me to flesh them out.

It might be hard for an Introvert to understand the necessity of doing that, but it's typical for Extraverts to do it.

Ok, so you are here to be influenced. You want others to help you in building your understanding.

Unfortunately, I don't do it often because there seems to be some unwritten rules about how to do it properly that I'm simply not understanding, or in some cases, refuse to submit to.

Which sucks, because I'm a very curious person who loves to engage others.

Hopefully, some day I will learn to navigate all the unwritten rules of etiquette on this forum without abandoning myself in the process.

In this thread (I don't want to talk about the others you've started lately, because I have really not paid attention to them that much) the problem wasn't that you didn't obey some unwritten rules, but that you were being defensive and aggressive. If your point is to bounce off ideas and come to a conclusion through that way, in other words to be influenced, you can't be overly defensive at the same time.
 

Tallulah

Emerging
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
6,009
MBTI Type
INTP
Are we talking about venting here? Because I'm fine with venting. I'm less fine when someone is venting about me, TO me, because I can't detach from that situation and not take it personally. But yeah, if an ENFP friend needs to vent to me, I'm not going to tell them to calm down or just breathe or some such patronizing bs. I wouldn't necessarily want someone to vent to me multiple times a day or something, because that would drain me.
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
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xNFP
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sx/so
I do want to discuss it with others. Otherwise I'd write a blog.

Bouncing my ideas off of others helps me to flesh them out.

It might be hard for an Introvert to understand the necessity of doing that, but it's typical for Extraverts to do it.


My primary motive for posting threads here is to flesh out my ideas.

Unfortunately, I don't do it often because there seems to be some unwritten rules about how to do it properly that I'm simply not understanding, or in some cases, refuse to submit to.

Which sucks, because I'm a very curious person who loves to engage others.

Hopefully, some day I will learn to navigate all the unwritten rules of etiquette on this forum without abandoning myself in the process.

Please explain what you mean in more depth. I'm grossly unaware of what has transpired recently to make you say this, so it is hard for me to make connections when I do not know the context.

Maybe if you could be a bit more specific....
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
1,154
MBTI Type
ENFP
Enneagram
7w8
Look at this thread. Who got irritated? The INXXs, especially the INXPs. They think things out FIRST. So they assume you brought this thread to the table completely well constructed, giving your best shot. And they ripped it to shreds, calling it crap. You wanted to start a discussion about something to mold it in the process.

Yeah, that's what really surprises me, and always has, since I've been on this forum.

At first, I assumed that the purpose of posting a thread was to get a discussion going.

I didn't realize that you were supposed to labor over your OP to create irrefutable positions, or to go the other extreme and to be so objective about everything that no one could possibly get mad at you.

I've tried to conform somewhat to the expectations of people on this forum but the expectations are like shifting sand, so it doesn't work.

What else can I do but just post the way I think is right?
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
1,154
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ENFP
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7w8
Ok, so you are here to be influenced. You want others to help you in building your understanding.

I think that's a strange way to put it, but yeah--bouncing my ideas off of others helps me to flesh out my ideas.

This is common with Extraverts.
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
6,880
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sx/so
Are we talking about venting here? Because I'm fine with venting. I'm less fine when someone is venting about me, TO me, because I can't detach from that situation and not take it personally. But yeah, if an ENFP friend needs to vent to me, I'm not going to tell them to calm down or just breathe or some such patronizing bs. I wouldn't necessarily want someone to vent to me multiple times a day or something, because that would drain me.

You know what I find hard (not as an ENFP, really, but just as Renée)? I find it really hard to know when to differentiate between the following:

a. venting just to vent
b. venting at me to piss me off
c. venting at me to clarify/correct a situation
d. venting to get an answer
e. venting about someone else when you're really venting about us/something to do with us vicariously and I'm supposed to somehow pick that out from high heaven
f. venting about one thing when you're really pissed off about something else
g. venting about general things when you really mean something specific
h. venting about specific things when you really mean something general

Etc. etc. very hard for me to distinguish. I think it's related to the topic. Any ideas how to hone that skill better?
 

Little Linguist

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Yeah, that's what really surprises me, and always has, since I've been on this forum.

At first, I assumed that the purpose of posting a thread was to get a discussion going.

I didn't realize that you were supposed to labor over your OP to create irrefutable positions, or to go the other extreme and to be so objective about everything that no one could possibly get mad at you.

I've tried to conform somewhat to the expectations of people on this forum but the expectations are like shifting sand, so it doesn't work.

What else can I do but just post the way I think is right?

I have noticed in general that INTPs especially will rip you a new one if they see your OP is not consistent/doesn't make sense and isn't well thought out. The problem is that they (sometimes) dismiss good ideas just because the logic was fuzzy/non-existent/not thought through. But mature INTPs will look at it despite the logical consistency or at least give you the chance to defend/revamp your argument, as most people here did in the thread.
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
Joined
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Messages
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Please explain what you mean in more depth. I'm grossly unaware of what has transpired recently to make you say this, so it is hard for me to make connections when I do not know the context.

Maybe if you could be a bit more specific....

I'm not sure why you (and others) are emphasizing recent events so much.

Sure, they were, in a round about way, influencing factors in my bringing this issue up. But my way of thinking and doing things isn't as focused and agenda-laden as some of you seem to think it is.

I don't see the recent events as being that relevant because this is a broader issue I have thought about all my life, even before I heard about typology.

Edahn seems to be gearing up to write an expose on recent events, so I'm afraid you'll just have to wait for that.
 

nolla

Senor Membrane
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
3,166
MBTI Type
INFP
I think that's a strange way to put it, but yeah--bouncing my ideas off of others helps me to flesh out my ideas.

Yeah, I know this is very common thing among extroverts, and maybe I could use different words, but my main point is that you need those other people as a part of this process, never mind about who influences who. If you are being defensive, you will not get the best out of the people as they will react to your defensiveness, and most likely your original idea drowns into the argument.
 

Little Linguist

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I'm not sure why you (and others) are emphasizing recent events so much.

Sure, they were, in a round about way, influencing factors in my bringing this issue up. But my way of thinking and doing things isn't as focused and agenda-laden as some of you seem to think it is.

I don't see the recent events as being that relevant because this is a broader issue I have thought about all my life, even before I heard about typology.

Edahn seems to be gearing up to write an expose on recent events, so I'm afraid you'll just have to wait for that.

I jumped to conclusions. Allow me to rephrase:

What has triggered your OP?
 

Tallulah

Emerging
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
6,009
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INTP
You know what I find hard (not as an ENFP, really, but just as Renée)? I find it really hard to know when to differentiate between the following:

a. venting just to vent
b. venting at me to piss me off
c. venting at me to clarify/correct a situation
d. venting to get an answer
e. venting about someone else when you're really venting about us/something to do with us vicariously and I'm supposed to somehow pick that out from high heaven
f. venting about one thing when you're really pissed off about something else
g. venting about general things when you really mean something specific
h. venting about specific things when you really mean something general

Etc. etc. very hard for me to distinguish. I think it's related to the topic. Any ideas how to hone that skill better?

Hmm! Good questions. I think it's kind of natural for me at this point, maybe because when I was younger I was so clueless about people's expectations of me, to sort of always wonder if there's a sub-level to the venting. If a roommate is complaining about the house being messy all the time because she's always working and doesn't have time to attend to anything, I'll ask myself if there's something I could be doing that I'm neglecting, too. Maybe I just hadn't thought of it. Ultimately, though, I think if people want something from you, and you're not picking up on the hints, they need to communicate that need more clearly. They don't really have a right to be angry if you never knew what they needed from you.

I do think there are people (I don't know what types they'd be or anything) that are not good venting partners. They will always, always take it personally and feel like you're just directing anger towards them. I don't mind people venting anger if I know it's not anger at me.
 

angell_m

Permabanned
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
818
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IxFx
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5w4
treat me like shit or like another one of your random cockjockeys and i won't take your thoughts into consideration. those are simple rules. so don't blame me if i end up burning the bridge between us. i got enough weight on my shoulders already, being a skinny little emo and all that.
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
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6,880
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xNFP
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Hmm! Good questions. I think it's kind of natural for me at this point, maybe because when I was younger I was so clueless about people's expectations of me, to sort of always wonder if there's a sub-level to the venting. If a roommate is complaining about the house being messy all the time because she's always working and doesn't have time to attend to anything, I'll ask myself if there's something I could be doing that I'm neglecting, too. Maybe I just hadn't thought of it. Ultimately, though, I think if people want something from you, and you're not picking up on the hints, they need to communicate that need more clearly. They don't really have a right to be angry if you never knew what they needed from you.

Thank you for this good advice. And I think you're right: Ultimately people have to have open communication, even if it doesn't have to be blunt. Perhaps I will develop better antennae as I mature.

I do think there are people (I don't know what types they'd be or anything) that are not good venting partners. They will always, always take it personally and feel like you're just directing anger towards them. I don't mind people venting anger if I know it's not anger at me.

Bingo! Exactly. I'm more than happy to listen - as long as people aren't just LASHING out at me for no reason.

However, I do have to curb my impulses to FIX things....that's bad. :doh:
 

Tallulah

Emerging
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
6,009
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INTP
I'm not sure why you (and others) are emphasizing recent events so much.

Sure, they were, in a round about way, influencing factors in my bringing this issue up. But my way of thinking and doing things isn't as focused and agenda-laden as some of you seem to think it is.

I don't see the recent events as being that relevant because this is a broader issue I have thought about all my life, even before I heard about typology.

Edahn seems to be gearing up to write an expose on recent events, so I'm afraid you'll just have to wait for that.

Well, all those threads you've been starting lately sort of tie together to look like an agenda. So whether they were are not, you can't really blame people for assuming this thread is the latest in the series. :smile:
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
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Jun 23, 2008
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xNFP
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sx/so
I naturally seek connections, even with limited information. That means we can make incorrect conclusions, though, which is why I sought more information (and haven't received....umm...grrr?).
 

Wonkavision

Retired Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2009
Messages
1,154
MBTI Type
ENFP
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7w8
I jumped to conclusions. Allow me to rephrase:

What has triggered your OP?


There are probably countless factors that led up to my posting the OP.

In a nutshell, though, I would say that I have interacted with a lot of people in the last few days, on the forum AND elsewhere--and have noticed some things about myself and how people react to me.

I thought it would be a good idea to give some advice on how to deal with an upset ENFP.

I think people would benefit from it.

And I appreciate hearing people's perspectives on it, because I'm in the process of trying to figure all this stuff out---myself, others, Life in general....

But if people don't want to heed the advice in the OP, it ultimately doesn't matter.

What else can I say?
 

Little Linguist

Striving for balance
Joined
Jun 23, 2008
Messages
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sx/so
There are probably countless factors that led up to my posting the OP.

In a nutshell, though, I would say that I have interacted with a lot of people in the last few days, on the forum AND elsewhere--and have noticed some things about myself and how people react to me.

I thought it would be a good idea to give some advice on how to deal with an upset ENFP.

I think people would benefit from it.

And I appreciate hearing people's perspectives on it, because I'm in the process of trying to figure all this stuff out---myself, others, Life in general....

But if people don't want to heed the advice in the OP, it ultimately doesn't matter.

What else can I say?

Please do not mistake my interrogations...they are simply to get to know you better.
 
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