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  1. #361
    Senior Member angelhair45's Avatar
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    Evan, so I read your post for the millionth time since everyone keeps quoting it and I caught something.
    If someone can't communicate something, or is saying untrue things about what they're thinking, why should they expect a positive response? They're misrepresenting themselves and they want people to know that. But sometimes they're not misrepresenting themselves. So to put the responsibility of figuring that out on the OTHER PERSON is completely stupid. No one can read minds.
    Now, I'm not going to say ENFPs have never expected someone to read their minds ( I know I have, but my ESTP husband is actually much worse at that expectation than I am). But that isn't always what is going on.

    I am not trying to put the responsibility of figuring out the problem onto the listener. I just want them to listen'. I'll figure it out, if they just listen instead of shutting me down. I don't know what I think until I express it, but generally I have to express wrong stuff before I get to the right stuff. I'm not just spouting off "untrue" things, I am processing it OUT LOUD because that is how I work. If I didn't do it that way, I'd probably be an INFP. It's a very important process, but listeners have to understand it's a process or they will be like "WTF?". If you read my signature quote that pretty much sums up a lot of ENFPs. I do this when I am perfectly calm, so why would the process change when I become upset? I have to extrovert my thoughts and feelings in order to figure them out. I am not expecting the listener to figure out anything.

    Their need to ask is even more important than their desire for an answer. ENFPs think out loud and do not censor or edit their thoughts. They actually need to hear what they've said before they can apply any judgment to it. For ENFPs, the process rules.
    From Nurture by Nature
    http://bohemianextrovert.wordpress.com/
    Please excuse the long drawn out ramble above.
    I have to hear what I've said before I know what I think.

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  2. #362
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    i am quoting this and making this huge because it is so ridiculously important.

    Quote Originally Posted by angelhair45 View Post
    I don't know what I think until I express it, but generally I have to express wrong stuff before I get to the right stuff. I'm not just spouting off "untrue" things, I am processing it OUT LOUD because that is how I work.

    If I didn't do it that way, I'd probably be an INFP. It's a very important process, but listeners have to understand it's a process or they will be like "WTF?". If you read my signature quote that pretty much sums up a lot of ENFPs. I do this when I am perfectly calm, so why would the process change when I become upset? I have to extrovert my thoughts and feelings in order to figure them out. I am not expecting the listener to figure out anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by poki
    Some people are worth it.

    edit: Also some people enjoy figuring things out. Its easier to be worth it for these people.
    this too. it's all give and take. i don't mind dealing with someone who is stubborn or feeling down often or skeptical or guarded or sarcastic or suspicious or reckless or stuck up or the possessor of any other number of flaws that i'll probably end up finding rather endearing if they're willing to see my flaws for what they are and help me too.

    i don't think anyone is saying we shouldn't try to handle it ourselves. we should. but to some extent, it's just who we are, and we can't have our positive traits without having their shadows, too.

  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    Hmmm, okay. So the next time an ENFP gets a crush on me Ill direct them to the nearest single intj. It seems more efficient for all involved.
    Don't assume all ENFPs have my weirdo fascination/fetish.

    I have to remember Im an emotard and will never understand emotions as much as a Te user. So it makes sense, since Im totally unaware of human protocol, especially when it comes to emotional outbursts and always will be. *nudge nudge*

    For me it's not that Te users understand emotions more. If anything, they're probably more robotic. I've found ENTPs to be quite open and personable, even when they're infuriarating. It's just the way Ti users talk to me sometimes makes me want to break things.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    It's just the way Ti users talk to me sometimes makes me want to break things.
    Talk with a modicum of rationality?



  5. #365
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    My ENFP skills

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Linguist View Post
    This post was very insightful. Where have you got such a good grasp on ENFP?
    Quote Originally Posted by angelhair45 View Post
    So, InvisibleJim how do you know us so well?

    Excellent explanation. I went through this process just last night.
    My ENFP skills have always existed. I don't use them in my personal life, being a solitary and hermitian INTJ.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by angelhair45 View Post
    I am not trying to put the responsibility of figuring out the problem onto the listener. I just want them to listen'. I'll figure it out, if they just listen instead of shutting me down. I don't know what I think until I express it, but generally I have to express wrong stuff before I get to the right stuff. I'm not just spouting off "untrue" things, I am processing it OUT LOUD because that is how I work. If I didn't do it that way, I'd probably be an INFP.
    Ok, now I am sure I'm not an E. But, how does that work? If you have no sensor, you could be saying just about anything... no one would let you to the dinner table...

    Does this also mean that you don't have this inner dialogue going on?

  7. #367
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nolla View Post
    Ok, now I am sure I'm not an E. But, how does that work? If you have no sensor, you could be saying just about anything... no one would let you to the dinner table...

    Does this also mean that you don't have this inner dialogue going on?
    oh no, always... but for me i have trouble processing things logically until they come out. i can notice patterns and develop theories and consistency-check and everything inside my head but i need it to come out for fact-checking purposes. for objective analysis.

    and i mean, it's not like we don't have any restraint on what we say. i'm pretty socially reserved. but when i'm trying to explain something, the more i output, the more i start to see things i missed. i don't really know why. something about the process of making it come out into vocal words or writing helps me do refining similar to Ti, i think.

  8. #368
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    yes yes yes to the processing out loud. that is why we may seem contradictory because people assume these are set in stone conclusions but it's just out loud thinking...very very important for people to get that...maybe we need to start explaining that before we start. :/
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    oh no, always... but for me i have trouble processing things logically until they come out. i can notice patterns and develop theories and consistency-check and everything inside my head but i need it to come out for fact-checking purposes. for objective analysis.

    and i mean, it's not like we don't have any restraint on what we say. i'm pretty socially reserved. but when i'm trying to explain something, the more i output, the more i start to see things i missed. i don't really know why. something about the process of making it come out into vocal words or writing helps me do refining similar to Ti, i think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    yes yes yes to the processing out loud. that is why we may seem contradictory because people assume these are set in stone conclusions but it's just out loud thinking...very very important for people to get that...maybe we need to start explaining that before we start. :/
    I guess you should give some kinda warning Because to me this makes little sense (and if you consider my type, it should make some sense).

    If I'm talking with someone, usually I kinda use "pre-prepared" material, like something I have thought before, something that I can just drop in. A bit like micro-pizza. But, I guess we are not talking about this. If I am talking with someone and they present me with something new, I kinda stop talking, go into my mind with the new stuff, and turn it around, see where it can be applied to, see if it doesn't fit with my other theories. Then I come back, and probably ask something concerning how it seemed to fit my general view of things.

  10. #370
    Senior Member animenagai's Avatar
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    Nolla, I think with Ne, it's something we can do in our heads very easily, whereas with something like Ti, it's something we need to externalize to make work. Different types of cognitive functions there. Maybe it's because extroverted Ti looks kinda like Te.
    Chimera of Filth

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