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  1. #191
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowriot View Post
    Okay so to say it again, this is valid. But I just think that what the OP outlined is still going to sound egocentric and immature. Not something I understand that healthy ENFPs would be in their communication. But just remember that when you feel upset you might get so focused on your own emotions that you lose touch with reality. And you might be responsible for people reacting against this in ways that might not be what you wanted. Communication is a give and take, which wonka started fine to underline but he lost track of this in the end of the OP by putting all responsibility of the communication on the other person. That is why I concluded that this behavior must have been meant in extreme situations like death and so on. And not regular frustration that we all experience
    This is a really good point, and this kind of sums up what i'm trying to say. I know in these kinds of situations i've often lost touch with reality; what I'm saying is that this is my process of getting back in touch with it. The instability comes within, so when i'm at a point where i need to talk it out with others, my inner self is NOT stable at this time. it's not reliable and I need to to bounce things off other people in order to balance myself out internally so that I can continue processing from there.

    i think another thing that is worth mentioning is that most of us know who to go to for these kinds of situations, who "get" us on this level and help us through it. I don't think the issue was demanding people bend to our method of processing frustration (at least i don't see it that way, i don't know where the OP stands in terms of that), but EXPLAINING that this is how we process things and how others ideally help us. i don't keep people around to play therapist for me...that's what my therapist is for but the nature of Ne is to accumulate many different viewpoints, so seeing what other people who I know understand my process and are able and willing to help have to say is just how I work.

    maybe you could explain what exactly it is that you find unhealthy about this? i feel like there is an assumption in this thread that this kind of emotional expression and processing of frustration is done in hysterics, but I obviously can't say for sure. I mean, maybe the nature of demanding people communicate in the way I need is immature and that's one thing, but when I'm having a problem and i ask someone if i can talk to them about it? When they ask me if i need to talk about it? the people that know me well enough for me to want to talk to them expect and know this.
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  2. #192
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stringstheory View Post
    The instability comes within, so when i'm at a point where i need to talk it out with others, my inner self is NOT stable at this time. it's not reliable and I need to to bounce things off other people in order to balance myself out internally so that I can continue processing from there.

    i think another thing that is worth mentioning is that most of us know who to go to for these kinds of situations, who "get" us on this level and help us through it. I don't think the issue was demanding people bend to our method of processing frustration (at least i don't see it that way, i don't know where the OP stands in terms of that), but EXPLAINING that this is how we process things and how others ideally help us.


    the OP was a little bit... er... emphatic about this, but basically yeah.

  3. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vamp View Post
    It's not true for me. I'm glad I'm one of the rare NF females that doesn't need to be saved by an NT male's quick non-feelings.

    I need someone to at least try to understand me, not to ...hit me with a stick all the time.

    I get told my feelings are invalid all the time and I'm just good and goddamn sick of it so someone waltzing in and going "quitcherbitching" without even trying to see where I'm coming from would just enrage me. Must I continue to pay for being an NF?

    I think I'm pretty good at realizing my own rut and getting out of it as much as I can. I don't need saving.

    I don't think it's about "saving." It's about perspective.

    It's actually great if someone can both tolerate the fact that you're being emotional, but give you solid advice on how to actually DEAL with what you're upset about. I need the space to express, but getting caught up in being emo and expressing isn't healthy if it's a long-term thing. There's a time for getting it out, and I really, really appreciate it when ....mainly mature INFJs and NTJs ime, not NTPs as much, but there is one INTP I can think of right off hand...*EDIT: I actually know a very helpful, understanding ENTP female, but she uses a great deal of mature Fe, and you were specifically talking about NT males, which is why I forgot.* can sort of help me to sort things out productively. It helps me so much. It helps to not feel like I'm drowning. My tert Te likes being gently (or sometimes not as gently, but still tolerantly and firmly) pushed toward HOW DO I FUCKING FIX THIS THING I'M UPSET ABOUT???!!!

    It makes me feel safer. I don't think that's weak. I agree with LL that it's more of a symbiotic thing...

    Because I think NTs need us to help them out and understand them too, sometimes, just in a different way. They need things from us that sometimes they realize they're getting, and at other times they appear to take for granted, but oh well. We can help them just as much as they help us.

    Now, waltzing in and literally saying "quitcherbitching" bugs me, which is why I've pointed out already that the smiley face convo that skylights posted reminded me of talking to an ENTP vs. an INTJ. I've experienced a lot less helpful kinds of "quitcherbitching" in the past from them, and it's really just counter-productive and pisses me off more.

    Its like I need to be pushed or straightened out without officially having been told to shut up or that I'm being stupid. Who wants to hear that? I remember one incident where I was having a meltdown about something, and I have an ENTJ friend and he was really calm about it, I didn't feel him outwardly judging me, but at the same time he was like "well don't let this upset you too much, and here's why, and deal with this by x,y,z, and I've been in this situation before, and I find this is most effective." And then he made me laugh about it. That's great.

    Also, I've had an INTJ help me to make a decision when I was being all emo, because his advice was given in such a calm, reasonable way. Basically like okay, here's some options for you. Here's things you can do. Here's what I did in a similar situation. Very simple, but VERY HELPFUL.

  4. #194
    Senior Member HotpinkHeatwave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Yep, I think she's a young ExTP too.
    According to someone on vent (forgot her name), I SOUND like an ENFP. But fuck that.


    Edit: Also, I'm definitely intuitive. So, I'd be an ENTP.

  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotpinkHeatwave View Post
    According to someone on vent (forgot her name), I SOUND like an ENFP. But fuck that.


    Edit: Also, I'm definitely intuitive. So, I'd be an ENTP.
    I've noticed that a number of ENTP females SOUND ENFP in vent ... I've thought the same of Gamine and Aramis, maybe even someone else. I think it might have something to do with how Ne dom females act when we're playing? I don't know.

    ENTP is probably your type, then.

  6. #196
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I don't think it's about "saving." It's about perspective.
    ...

    Now, waltzing in and literally saying "quitcherbitching" bugs me, which is why I've pointed out already that the smiley face convo that skylights posted reminded me of talking to an ENTP vs. an INTJ. I've experienced a lot less helpful kinds of "quitcherbitching" in the past from them, and it's really just counter-productive and pisses me off more.

    Its like I need to be pushed or straightened out without officially having been told to shut up or that I'm being stupid. Who wants to hear that? I remember one incident where I was having a meltdown about something, and I have an ENTJ friend and he was really calm about it, I didn't feel him outwardly judging me, but at the same time he was like "well don't let this upset you too much, and here's why, and deal with this by x,y,z, and I've been in this situation before, and I find this is most effective." And then he made me laugh about it. That's great.

    Also, I've had an INTJ help me to make a decision when I was being all emo, because his advice was given in such a calm, reasonable way. Basically like okay, here's some options for you. Here's things you can do. Here's what I did in a similar situation. Very simple, but VERY HELPFUL.
    Yeah this is exactly how I feel; again it's not so much about being SAVED as it is assisted, and that's why I like to go to xNTJs (amongst others) for processing like this. In fact the second conversation that I typed out in my initial post was modeled off of conversations I've had with my ENTJ best friend, the first was more of the "quityerbitchin" type response that doesn't help me. Tough love works for me as long as it's in the form "OK, i'm here to help so here's where you fucked up and here's where you were in the right so let's see what we can do with that" instead of "ugh, this isn't anything to be upset about"
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  7. #197

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    I'm massively analytical when there is trouble, and I normally am most unsettled when I'm stuck for options or have hit a catch 22 situation. The thing that would affect me most in these times is really caring about the best result and feeling I can't get there. So talking it over and breaking that deadlock really helps. Yes, there can be an emo hollowness to it , but at heart I'm normally looking to find "the answer", not hugs to smooth the ride or assurance that it is irrelevant or okay (unless you can somehow justify this to me). These things just feel like leaving the important stuff until tomorrow and not addressing things. That isn't to say I don't like hugs and support, just that they don't fix it when I'm down or stuck, strange creative solutions and problem solving do; dreams, inspirational ideas and the like; the thrill of navigating my way through the danger rather than running and playing it safe. Some things people say turn challenges into problems, mole hills into mountains, and chances for creativity into routine, that's when I really start to feel down and uninspired.
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  8. #198
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    I only read the OP, it was very accurate regarding a friend of mine.

    How do i make an ENFP STFU when they're upset more often than i can deal with? He has been grieving for some time and i have done what i can to help, but as an introvert i simply don't have the time or energy to deal with his endless self-expression that dominates our friendship. I am his best friend apparently but I am very over it and want to decrease his attachment to me in a nice way... but he won't let me - he is demanding of my attention which is extremely irritating and is basically making me hate him. Avoiding/ignoring an ENFP seems to make them very dramatic, frustrated and angry and therefore much more annoying. Directly asking for space caused him to try to guilt trip me into talking to him in a way that i thought was blatantly obvious; i don't really want anything to do with someone like that. I think i am going to need to tell him to simply leave me alone and be mean... is there not a nicer way? We have mutual friends so i don't want to create lots of drama, though it seems inevitable as he doesn't seem willing to let his attachment to me go.

  9. #199
    THIS bitch stringstheory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glass Forest View Post
    I only read the OP, it was very accurate regarding a friend of mine.

    How do i make an ENFP STFU when they're upset more often than i can deal with? He has been grieving for some time and i have done what i can to help, but as an introvert i simply don't have the time or energy to deal with his endless self-expression that dominates our friendship. I am his best friend apparently but I am very over it and want to decrease his attachment to me in a nice way... but he won't let me - he is demanding of my attention which is extremely irritating and is basically making me hate him. Avoiding/ignoring an ENFP seems to make them very dramatic, frustrated and angry and therefore much more annoying. Directly asking for space caused him to try to guilt trip me into talking to him in a way that i thought was blatantly obvious; i don't really want anything to do with someone like that. I think i am going to need to tell him to simply leave me alone and be mean... is there not a nicer way? We have mutual friends so i don't want to create lots of drama, though it seems inevitable as he doesn't seem willing to let his attachment to me go.
    hmm...i'm not sure. How exactly are you informing them you need space? personally I sometimes don't find the NT version of "directness" to be very direct...or I need the expression to be really explicit because I'm in too much pain to see it. but if someone tells me that they don't have the energy to talk about the issue and it drains them then I get the hint because it resonates with my Fi (my partner is INTJ, so this happens from time to time).

    if it's clear that the person won't respect your space though, then they don't seem like a good friend to keep around, IMO.
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  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by animenagai View Post
    Fixed.
    No, it was fine as it was, don't quote modify for your benefit. I was being very explicit in my viewpoint.

    But yes ENFPs; just listen to them, hug it out. With a little luck the ENFP is patient enough to listen back. They are going to do what they want anyway.

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