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  1. #921
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    Insight on a Ni dom. When I first get in an argument, all the pieces are zooming around in my mind and so I have absolutely nothing constructive to say right then. Then, I piece the pieces together in my mind from anywhere from a couple hours to one week. After that, if I wait too long to talk about something, a million judgments form in my mind, usually along the lines of, "That person is a mean jerk!" If I talk soon, then I know I can prevent those judgments and further hurt to both the other person and myself.
    Random Ness, I found this very interesting. I'm beginning to consider the differences between Ne and Ni and I found this very helpful. I don't want to get us too far off topic, but wanted to mention. I'm thinking the process you describe above falls within the nexus of Ni dominance and externalized judgment. I experience the exact same "zooming"; however, I'm unlikely to make judgments if I wait too long. Conversely, I leave my judgments hanging open...perhaps too long sometimes. Very interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    So what I've learned is...if someone needs their space after an argument, I should respect it, because perhaps they are like an IFP who needs time to think it all out and doesn't see the need to discuss things.

    And, IFPs, if someone needs to understand something for closure, you should find some kind of common ground with them. Otherwise, you better have a good excuse, because if not, then refusing to discuss anything with them is just cruel.
    I completely respect this position. And, know it is easier said than done. I'm sorry it didn't work out with your INFP, but am most impressed with your kindness and willingness to accommodate her needs in this area.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  2. #922
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adasta View Post
    The reason I think this is because it is often true - others seems to enjoy/need to "talk things over" - but also because it is the last thing I would do. At the point of any failure, personal, introspective analysis is what occurs; any attempt to bring me out of this will be met with anger - interjections are viewed as stealing valuable time from what I consider to be extremely meaningful internal dialogue(s). This can be difficult for the other person involved because they are relegated to the status of "burden" while this painful process is taking place. Being forced into any sort of heart-to-heart during this period (which could be anywhere between 1-30 days, I would say) would be viewed with aggression and the result would be akin to waking someone from a deep sleep and bombarding them with questions: intense irritation.

    Dominant Fi never feels a need to justify itself and views attempts by others to "patch things up" as servile, and therefore undesirable. This is "bad side" of the INFP. Time is a watchword, a necessary component for both the INFP and whomever else is involved. An upset INFP is much like an open wound; time, the scab.
    Just to present an alternate viewpoint: As an INFP, I don't relate or feel similarly to this at all. If one is trying to find a system to relate behaviour to, this situation would seem better related to enneagram type than MBTI. As a 9, the way I engage in conflict is very different. If you and I had a problem, I would be right there working through it 'til we found a peaceful resolution. I cannot rest or be comfortable until this happens. I seldom withdraw, despite how awful these types of issues can be and how painful they feel at the time. My goal is to reestablish harmony, and in order to do so, will invest a great deal of energy and generally wish to do so within a short time frame. Immediate wouldn't be too fast.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  3. #923
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    ^ I have a friend who's a 9 and I find the type of conciliation you mentioned unbearable! I know she means well, but I somehow view any immediate attempt to nullify my bad mood as being servile in some way, as if she is too afraid to deal with someone in a bad mood or even to experience one herself. Once I've calmed down from the initial ferocity of my rage - which is almost always non-demonstrative - after about an hour or so, I find she's a pretty good arbitrator who doesn't seem to judge me for my emotionality: she just tries to reconcile both parties to a peaceful resolution. I appreciate that.

    As an aside, I've always been intrigued by INFPs being cast as inclined towards psychology. I personally found psychology too intense to pursue as anything more than a hobby (like philosophy, for example); I now wonder whether an INFP e9 would be more suited than an INFP 4w5 to that profession since they can combine depth of insight with a genuine need to restore order?
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  4. #924
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    ^ thanks Adasta for your thoughts! I have to try really hard to give the other person space when I sense they need it, because my own need to reconcile is so great I am eager to start the process asap. And, some things really do benefit from being hit square on, in the heat of the moment.

    My daughter, for example, is an INTJ; in the few conflicts we had during her teen years, she would want to withdraw at times, avoid the emotions ... and I would give her an hour or so, but then we had to explore the emotionality of the situation before she had gotten to a point where you could not re-engage her. My son ... as an ESFP, you think he'd be the easier one to explore emotions with but no ... he keeps a great deal bottled up, and getting to his core requires a whole different strategy. One must watch and wait ... when he's feeling things intensely he cannot find the words.

    lol we are all so different, aren't we?

    I do feel attracted to psychology but feel concern that I would not be able to keep the appropriate professional distance in certain situations. And my nine-ness may make me impatient with people who take forever to initiate communication with those they are in conflict with.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  5. #925
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    The enneagram seven I know also withdraws and ignores you during arguments. That lines up pretty well with sevens not wanting to "internalize" anything, doesn't it?

    I, as well, would find psychology as an intriguing path of study. My biggest worry is that I'd feel so bad for my patients that I'd be the one needing consoling.

    I wonder, can thinker types be good counselors?

  6. #926
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    ^ I think so, since Thinker types would be sure there was a cause and, subsequently, a solution. I'd just end up sobbing and wailing "Why is life so cruel?" which, while endearing, wouldn't help anyone at all.
    That girls are raped, that two boys knife a third,
    Were axioms to him, who'd never heard
    Of any world where promises were kept,
    Or one could weep because another wept.

  7. #927
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    I think I would make a terrific counselor, but I suspect after years of it, I would get frustrated with those who don't really want to be helped--some people remain trapped in therapy for years and years, endlessly exploring their feelings and never open to adjusting their perspective, negating the benefits of therapy in the first place. I'm naturally empathetic, though, and having experienced dysthymia, depression, and anxiety myself, I would be able to help others through similar situations. I think it's hard to counsel others if you don't know how earth-shatteringly debilitating mental illnesses can be. My mother, though a feeler and a good listener, wouldn't make a good counselor because she can't really relate to being depressed. She'd be baffled as to why people couldn't just snap out of it.
    Something Witty

  8. #928
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    My son ... as an ESFP, you think he'd be the easier one to explore emotions with but no ... he keeps a great deal bottled up, and getting to his core requires a whole different strategy. One must watch and wait ... when he's feeling things intensely he cannot find the words.
    interestingly, i have found the same thing with a friend of mine who i highly suspect to be SFP. he got angry at me and could not really address it with words, but i think we both understood what he was feeling. introverted functions are a bitch sometimes... the farther in you go, the harder it becomes to voice what you find.

    i am considering becoming a counselor... maybe... ugh

    i think INTs in particular could make good counselors. i feel like most INTJs i know would like to pretend that they don't have the patience or heart for it but they're really quite good at helping guide others.

  9. #929
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    Yeah I think INTJs are actually rather patient and quite helpful because they give rational advice. I've experienced this with more than one INTJ and I've appreciated it. But I think only certain types respond to this. I think others might perceive it as being too cold, perhaps condecending, or even overly logical.

    I think the reason why INFJs are "the counselor" is totally clear based upon two females that I'm fairly certain are INFJ. They radiate a kind of hesitant, controlled warmth, they ask a lot of questions about you rather than announce what they think of you, and are careful to phrase their advice so it might be more palatable.

    I think the healthiest and/or smartest ones can lead you to your own answers without you even realizing how much they're guiding you.

  10. #930
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i think INTs in particular could make good counselors. i feel like most INTJs i know would like to pretend that they don't have the patience or heart for it but they're really quite good at helping guide others.
    Heheheh.

    On the one hand, we'd probably be very good at it. On the other, it would annoy us to no end and emotionally drain us, likely making the rest of our lives rather unpleasant.

    Never mind having to clamp our mouths shut every time we will have justifiable cause to say, "How could you be so STUPID?!?!"

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