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  1. #911
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post

    @skylights: Does immediate feedback ever cause you to say something you regret? Do you bug people if they want to wait until they finally talk to you (not that it's a bad thing; that's what I do)? Do you get frustrated when people don't ever want to talk about it?
    I bug certain people sometimes to talk about things with me, and I think it's actually a sign of insecurity rather than Fi or Fe. I mean, if I wasn't insecure about particular individuals, I wouldn't bother to keep prodding them for a response or an explanation. I think the emotionally mature thing to do would be to let people be themselves, even if that means they need more space or time. I mean, I don't want to always talk about things.

    I just make sure I'm direct, usually, though. I think being direct is more efficient as in "I don't want to talk about this right now" or "I'm too upset to talk, let me calm down" versus just straight up avoiding someone or giving them the silent treatment, which is something that drives me BONKERS!!! Is this what your INFP friend was doing?

  2. #912
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    @KDude and PeaceBaby: Wow, guys. xD

    @skylights: Does immediate feedback ever cause you to say something you regret? Do you bug people if they want to wait until they finally talk to you (not that it's a bad thing; that's what I do)? Do you get frustrated when people don't ever want to talk about it?

    @Lauren: That sounds like my method, actually. I'm okay with waiting for feedback (since I don't give immediate feedback, either) under one condition--we eventually talk about it! So then do you eventually give feedback? I was wondering what the thought processes are of people who don't give feedback and just leave things alone. Is it a coping strategy or being immature? I'm not sure.
    I also don't mind waiting for feedback (for the same reasons) and I also need to eventually talk about it, if it's something that needs to be cleared up. A good example of this is my good friend at work. We talk often and always (this is a trait of the two of us) usually spill our guts to one another about whatever it is we're feeling or thinking. We don't leave things in limbo for long at all, if there's any chance of a misunderstanding. But we were talking one day about communication and I told him I needed to go away and think about something...he looked at me and finished my thought. He does exactly the same thing. Yeah, for me, when I go away and to think, it's neutral. I have no intention other than I need to process. I don't withdraw and never come back. I don't, as fidelia said, count the sins of anyone. Never. I'm not perfect and life's too short. To answer your question, I think if a person withdraws and never talks, it can be passive-aggressive. Or fear. Clarity is always good.
    Last edited by Lauren; 12-28-2010 at 08:13 AM.

  3. #913
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Sometimes I'm wary about talking through emotions with people because if there is some kind of mis-communication or distorted perception going on, my concern is that more words will spin a more convoluted web. When a relationship starts going awry I tend to try to simplify things by doing clear and directly "nice" things, but not hashing things out too much. I think there is a balance, though, and that it is good to do some talking, but that can form an endless loop of confusion also.

    I've been disappointed when people I care about are distant, but it is most important to me to let people be who they naturally are. I don't like to coerce anyone into communicating or spending time with me. I tend to try to accept the relationship on their terms, and I realize I should probably assert myself more, but I don't because it doesn't entirely make sense to me to do it. Sometimes I have had to be the distant one because I had to deal with things that would make people really anxious which would contribute to my own anxiety. If I am making decisions I try to clear out as much emotional baggage as possible from myself and other people, so that is a time I tend to withdraw myself.
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  4. #914
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    @skylights: Does immediate feedback ever cause you to say something you regret? Do you bug people if they want to wait until they finally talk to you (not that it's a bad thing; that's what I do)? Do you get frustrated when people don't ever want to talk about it?
    yes, it has caused me to say things i regret. or, rather, allowed me. personally, i often need to verbalize my way through my thoughts - but while i'm muddling through the murky mess of words, sometimes the other person is taking my every word at 100% certainty and face value. i have learned to ask of my family and good friends to please let me take a little time navigating language to figure out what i'm trying to say, and please to withhold full judgment until i have reached a place of finality in thought and speech.

    i do tend to bug people if they don't want to talk, because i want the matter settled and i want there to be peace and good will between us. it eats at me when i am in a state of disharmony with someone else, particularly if they are important to me.

    i get frustrated when people don't want to talk if they don't give me a reason why. if they just say, i'm not ready yet, or i need more time, then i can wait. and if they never want to talk about it, that does frustrate me too. i feel like it's trying to pretend a wound is not there, instead of healing it like we could.

  5. #915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annwn View Post
    Sometimes I'm wary about talking through emotions with people because if there is some kind of mis-communication or distorted perception going on, my concern is that more words will spin a more convoluted web. When a relationship starts going awry I tend to try to simplify things by doing clear and directly "nice" things, but not hashing things out too much. I think there is a balance, though, and that it is good to do some talking, but that can form an endless loop of confusion also.I've been disappointed when people I care about are distant, but it is most important to me to let people be who they naturally are. I don't like to coerce anyone into communicating or spending time with me. I tend to try to accept the relationship on their terms, and I realize I should probably assert myself more, but I don't because it doesn't entirely make sense to me to do it. Sometimes I have had to be the distant one because I had to deal with things that would make people really anxious which would contribute to my own anxiety. If I am making decisions I try to clear out as much emotional baggage as possible from myself and other people, so that is a time I tend to withdraw myself.
    I relate to this, and to the bolded part: I also feel that talking too much can make things more muddled. Sometimes, if it's something that's not that important to clear up immediatey, I'll just be positive with the person and, as you say, do nice things. That can make it easier to talk later, if necessary. With my friend, if I feel I need to explain something (this is usually work-related, the "spill my guts" I mentioned), we go ahead and do it because we've always been completely open with and trust one another to tell the truth of any situation. I've also learned not to sweat certain things because by this time I hope he knows he can give me the benefit of the doubt. If I do nice things and be positive, it helps to lift what might be just a weird mood that the two of us might fall into. Sometimes certain situations are just passing storms.

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    Thanks for the multiple replies, guys!

    Skylights, you and me have the exact same feelings about arguments. Well, there is one difference: I prefer to withdraw and take a couple days to find the best words to use [least hurtful, least confusing, etc] rather than muddling through a verbal conversation. But otherwise, I relate to feeling like not talking about it is ignoring the wound rather than helping it possibly heal.

    It's interesting that you guys think talking things through could make more misunderstandings. To me, I'm already thinking of a thousand misunderstandings about them and so I feel that talking it through can only help me understand better.

    ----------

    So I guess here's my main question: Let's say you break up with someone because you both misunderstand and dislike each other so much that you can't be together. Would you talk things out so you could understand why they are the way they are instead of just thinking they're a jerk? Or would you not talk about anything because you just don't want to face the pain?

    And say you both still want to try to be friends. Would you work out your differences so you can avoid future misunderstandings? Or would you not talk about it and leave it behind so you wouldn't have to go through that painful process with them?

    I find it impossible to just leave such a painful situation behind. I have to understand what happened or else it just keeps coming up over and over again. I can't not talk to someone about something big and pretend that everything's okay between us. Every time I see that person the bad feelings from that situation come up.

    ----------

    My problem was that my INFP apparently did not think like this. She thought talking things over would prevent us from being friends. And she said she'd get in a bad mood and so never wanted to talk about it. But, she gradually distanced herself from me, so apparently she must have no longer wanted to be friends. I still have scars over this and the only way she could have helped them heal was to talk about it with me. So I have to find healing somewhere else. As in, learning about INFPs/IEIs/4s and asking people on personality forums questions.

    Do you think the only way she could heal was by never facing the situation again? Do you think she had a valid point or do you think she was just avoidant? If she does, how can I deal with someone like that in the future?

  7. #917
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    So I guess here's my main question: Let's say you break up with someone because you both misunderstand and dislike each other so much that you can't be together. Would you talk things out so you could understand why they are the way they are instead of just thinking they're a jerk? Or would you not talk about anything because you just don't want to face the pain?

    And say you both still want to try to be friends. Would you work out your differences so you can avoid future misunderstandings? Or would you not talk about it and leave it behind so you wouldn't have to go through that painful process with them?

    I find it impossible to just leave such a painful situation behind. I have to understand what happened or else it just keeps coming up over and over again. I can't not talk to someone about something big and pretend that everything's okay between us. Every time I see that person the bad feelings from that situation come up.

    Do you think the only way she could heal was by never facing the situation again? Do you think she had a valid point or do you think she was just avoidant? If she does, how can I deal with someone like that in the future?
    Random Ness, I'm still catching up on this thread so I haven't read everything yet but let me take a stab at this...

    I don't think Fi (used by INFPs and ENFPs) is inherently avoidant. I'd say it's cautious about revealing itself. And, after it has revealed itself, it makes the Fi user feel a bit drained and emotionally exposed. At least that's how it feels to me. So, no, I don't think Fi would be the driver in your INFP ex's avoidant behavior.

    This may simply be a case of her protecting her heart. Even if breaking up was the right thing to do, such events are always the source of a lot of heart ache and self-evaluation. Fi would indeed be a big player in this process for any Fi user. And as Fi is wont to do, it will usually play a private, not publicly articulated role. In other words, Fi would want to understand, but not necessarily discuss with another person, its internal machinations.

    I think INFPs and ENFPs might handle this kind of thing a little differently. I think it may have to do with the differences between having a perceiving function dominate (ENFPs have dominant Ne) and a judging function dominate (INFPs have dominate Fi). As an ENFP I always want to take in new information and understand EVERYTHING in my life. (And, as an INFJ you share this strong desire to process the meaning of everything because we both have dominant intuition.)

    But, I've noticed that there is a subtle difference in emphasis with my INFP BFF. She has Ne as her auxiliary function so she loves to take in new information, too. But her starting point is her Fi... or her vision of <insert situation here>. I've noticed that if her vision for the way things ought to be doesn't match up with the way things really are, she needs time alone to process this. And, me pushing her to process it with me does nothing but stress her out. So my gut feeling is that ENFPs would be more likely to go down the post mortem discussion path with you than INFPs.

    So back to your question, maybe your INFP needs alone time to process it and doesn't fully understand the mental forces compelling her to want to run away every time you try to have a relationship post mortem discussion with her.

    As far as how to handle this in the future if such a situation arises again... Well, I'd say that you need to recognize that her Fi needs time to grieve over the death of its vision. And, that during this grieving period, relationship post mortem discussions are probably not going to be met with enthusiasm. Perhaps instead of trying to hash out what happened in the past, you can focus on the present and the future. In other words, if you work on just being a good friend to her, then you can handle problems as they arise within the new parameters of your friendship.

    I don't think there's a MBTI magic bullet here.
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  8. #918
    Senior Member Adasta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    I've noticed that there is a subtle difference in emphasis with my INFP BFF. She has Ne as her auxiliary function so she loves to take in new information, too. But her starting point is her Fi... or her vision of <insert situation here>. I've noticed that if her vision for the way things ought to be doesn't match up with the way things really are, she needs time alone to process this.
    This is perceptive (and accurate). Tumultuous situations often make me think "Am I required here?" If the answer is no, I will retreat, recognising that I will not add anything beneficial to the situation and that there is probably someone else doing a good job. I am comfortable with this. If, for some reason, I am obliged to take part in this chaotic instance, I need a moment to evaluate how best to fit in. My desire is to differ from those in this group by being of genuine help in a way which would align with what I believe to be "right"; it is likely I would view already present members of the group as obstinate or misinformed (since they are not working harmoniously): I would not want to be considered thus.

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    [D]uring this grieving period, relationship post mortem discussions are probably not going to be met with enthusiasm. Perhaps instead of trying to hash out what happened in the past, you can focus on the present and the future. In other words, if you work on just being a good friend to her, then you can handle problems as they arise within the new parameters of your friendship.
    These sort of conversations are so awful because I often know what the other person will say. If something has failed, I'm painfully aware of why. I almost always consider such conversations as a manifestation of the other person's need to talk about their problems. If I were to engage in this sort of analysis, it would often be to appease the other person, whom I believe to feel a need towards catharsis via conversation and discussion.

    The reason I think this is because it is often true - others seems to enjoy/need to "talk things over" - but also because it is the last thing I would do. At the point of any failure, personal, introspective analysis is what occurs; any attempt to bring me out of this will be met with anger - interjections are viewed as stealing valuable time from what I consider to be extremely meaningful internal dialogue(s). This can be difficult for the other person involved because they are relegated to the status of "burden" while this painful process is taking place. Being forced into any sort of heart-to-heart during this period (which could be anywhere between 1-30 days, I would say) would be viewed with aggression and the result would be akin to waking someone from a deep sleep and bombarding them with questions: intense irritation.

    Dominant Fi never feels a need to justify itself and views attempts by others to "patch things up" as servile, and therefore undesirable. This is "bad side" of the INFP. Time is a watchword, a necessary component for both the INFP and whomever else is involved. An upset INFP is much like an open wound; time, the scab.
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  9. #919
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench
    I think INFPs and ENFPs might handle this kind of thing a little differently. I think it may have to do with the differences between having a perceiving function dominate (ENFPs have dominant Ne) and a judging function dominate (INFPs have dominate Fi). As an ENFP I always want to take in new information and understand EVERYTHING in my life. (And, as an INFJ you share this strong desire to process the meaning of everything because we both have dominant intuition.)
    I didn't think ENFPs would withdraw and wait...

    Perhaps instead of trying to hash out what happened in the past, you can focus on the present and the future. In other words, if you work on just being a good friend to her, then you can handle problems as they arise within the new parameters of your friendship.
    The problem was that all of the problems that came up related to the problems we had in our relationship...

    I don't think there's a MBTI magic bullet here.
    I'm not looking for a magic MBTI bullet. I'm look for any magic bullet.

    I've noticed that there is a subtle difference in emphasis with my INFP BFF. She has Ne as her auxiliary function so she loves to take in new information, too. But her starting point is her Fi... or her vision of <insert situation here>. I've noticed that if her vision for the way things ought to be doesn't match up with the way things really are, she needs time alone to process this. And, me pushing her to process it with me does nothing but stress her out.
    Quote Originally Posted by Adasta
    At the point of any failure, personal, introspective analysis is what occurs; any attempt to bring me out of this will be met with anger - interjections are viewed as stealing valuable time from what I consider to be extremely meaningful internal dialogue(s). This can be difficult for the other person involved because they are relegated to the status of "burden" while this painful process is taking place. Being forced into any sort of heart-to-heart during this period (which could be anywhere between 1-30 days, I would say) would be viewed with aggression and the result would be akin to waking someone from a deep sleep and bombarding them with questions: intense irritation.
    Thanks for the explanations, guys. I didn't know that people had thought processes like this.

    Insight on a Ni dom. When I first get in an argument, all the pieces are zooming around in my mind and so I have absolutely nothing constructive to say right then. Then, I piece the pieces together in my mind from anywhere from a couple hours to one week. After that, if I wait too long to talk about something, a million judgements form in my mind, usually along the lines of, "That person is a mean jerk!" If I talk soon, then I know I can prevent those judgments and further hurt to both the other person and myself.

    I almost always consider such conversations as a manifestation of the other person's need to talk about their problems.
    I wanted both of us to benefit from discussion. I wonder if she thought I was selfish by insisting on discussion.

    Dominant Fi never feels a need to justify itself and views attempts by others to "patch things up" as servile, and therefore undesirable.
    Wow...that's wildly different from me. I always feel like patching things up.

    ------------------------------

    So what I've learned is...if someone needs their space after an argument, I should respect it, because perhaps they are like an IFP who needs time to think it all out and doesn't see the need to discuss things.

    And, IFPs, if someone needs to understand something for closure, you should find some kind of common ground with them. Otherwise, you better have a good excuse, because if not, then refusing to discuss anything with them is just cruel.

  10. #920
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I second what RN just said.

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