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  1. #881
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    There are a lot of things that are important to do, even if we do not feel like it. There are a lot of times when people don't feel love for their spouse at that moment, yet they choose not to treat them with disrespect. They may feel frustrated with their child, but they don't unleash a verbal tirade that will create lasting damage. They may prefer to go to bed or do something for themselves, but realize that tonight is when their teenager is in a mood to visit. They may find it difficult to go to the hospital to see someone they love, but they also realize that it is worse to force their loved one to face death alone. When an alarm clock goes off, people don't always feel like getting up, but they do. We eat well and exercise sometimes even when we'd prefer to do what is easiest. We clean our houses to prevent them from becoming dangerous, unpleasant to be in or losing value, even though cleaning is not most people's first compulsion. Life is made up of a series of tasks which may be unpleasant in the moment, but ultimate create resilience in us, better character, and a more ordered and happy existence.

    I understand that Fi-ers may pick up on the fact that what we are doing, while being socially acceptable, is not where our heart lies. While I can see where it could hurt to come to that realization if it is you that is being tolerated, it doesn't mean that our desire is not to do everything within our locus of control to make the other person feel valued. Given the same circumstances, that is what we would hope for for ourselves.

  2. #882
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    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    There are a lot of things that are important to do, even if we do not feel like it. There are a lot of times when people don't feel love for their spouse at that moment, yet they choose not to treat them with disrespect. They may feel frustrated with their child, but they don't unleash a verbal tirade that will create lasting damage. They may prefer to go to bed or do something for themselves, but realize that tonight is when their teenager is in a mood to visit. They may find it difficult to go to the hospital to see someone they love, but they also realize that it is worse to force their loved one to face death alone. When an alarm clock goes off, people don't always feel like getting up, but they do. We eat well and exercise sometimes even when we'd prefer to do what is easiest. We clean our houses to prevent them from becoming dangerous, unpleasant to be in or losing value, even though cleaning is not most people's first compulsion. Life is made up of a series of tasks which may be unpleasant in the moment, but ultimate create resilience in us, better character, and a more ordered and happy existence.

    I understand that Fi-ers may pick up on the fact that what we are doing, while being socially acceptable, is not where our heart lies. While I can see where it could hurt to come to that realization if it is you that is being tolerated, it doesn't mean that our desire is not to do everything within our locus of control to make the other person feel valued. Given the same circumstances, that is what we would hope for for ourselves.
    Agreed. All of this is so true, and some people speculate that people with Fi do all of this with Te (for practical reasons or reasons of efficiency) instead of Fe. I don't know how much I buy that theory, or if someone with Fi can also use Fe. It does seem to me that maybe ISTJs and INTJs at least do these things with Te/Fi, which is why it comes across as nicely logical and rational when they are polite or dutiful or keep their feelings under control.

    I always balked at the idea that being an ENFP meant being this selfish, impulsive person who ALWAYS DID WHAT THEY FELT. I sometimes wonder if that's why some people thought they saw Fe in me in person, or thought I seemed more FJ, because I'm not as loose and carefree and sarcastically joking as I seem to almost always be on-line.

    Or maybe I am an INFJ who lets out some ENFP shadow on-line (I've also seen a couple INTJs who I've actually met in person on this site be called ENTPs on-line). Sometimes I wonder if function theory even exists and people are just quibbling about behaviors they don't like or relate to and blaming it on the opposite function.

  3. #883
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    However, I usually don't let it splash out all over the place and just make a mess. It's still controlled by Judgment -- whether it's my T rationality telling me what is fair and unfair in a given situation, or my F sense of propriety telling me what is appropriate for the given situation. If I feel the situation is inappropriate for my feelings to be expressed, I just don't express them. I can even seem fine while I'm actually really upset. You'll find out what I think and feel if the situation changes and now I feel I am in a postion where I can choose to express my feelings.

    I had trouble understanding my ESFP son, because he's far more like what you describe. If he's having a "yuck" moment, it's basically crap that is spewed over anyone in the general vicinity. Even if he tries to control it, he has a lot of trouble doing so. It's just there and prevalent. I work hard to accept that it's very difficult, for whatever reason, and try to be supportive, and work on more positive ways for him to process stuff (that fit his style); but I still do feel frustration sometimes over it.
    yeah. and do understand that it's not for lack of trying. if he's anything like me, i try VERY hard to let my emotions not spill out of control. but it's almost as if waves of color come over me - if i'm angry, it's like suddenly everything i see is colored vivid red, and i grow hot inside, and my leg starts bouncing - i'm suddenly filled up with all this hot angry energy and i don't really know how to get rid of it short of yoga (which, i've learned to do breathing exercises in place, but it's still a challenge). i'm actually very good at hiding feelings like nervousness and distaste, but with irritation and happiness, i really wear my heart on my sleeve.

    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    *nods* If it's causing trouble, it's your job to understand why they are acting like they are instead of assuming they're ridiculous, and their job to recognize if their behavior is out of line instead of assuming they're acceptable.


    Quote Originally Posted by Annwn View Post
    I didn't read the whole discussion, but I have noticed people equating being "truthy" as you call it here with being honest or objective and that has always confused me especially if they are being truthy about something based on their perception. Saying it's "boring", "ugly", "stupid", might have some type of value that multiple people would agree with, but more often I've found bluntness to be subjective opinion that isn't nearly as truthy in the external world as it is inside the person. I've always admired the people who can say, "I feel this way about something, but it is because I've been influenced by x and y, and I know it is not necessarily a universal truth". Confusing perception and reality is about the least truthy thing a person can do.
    i think there's a difference between a truth and Truth. what you're calling perception is what others are calling truths - personal truths - because, after all, the world is a great assembly of personal truths. without each person's perception, we have nothing. and where all the personal truths are able to overlap - that's where we get Truth. Fi truthiness is rather similar to Ti truthiness because both are about getting to the bottom of an issue - the heart of a matter - and finding basic principles that the universe works on - truths - but Fi truthiness is about how you really personally feel and see things, without bias from the external world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    I don't understand this criticism of Fe. If I'm nodding and smiling at Joe, doing the best I can while fervently wishing myself or him elsewhere, what am I doing wrong? [...] why does that make me bad? or fake? What else would you want done? I mean, besides making Joe a more entertaining conversationalist.
    well, the potential is that it could be hurting both of you inside.

    pull back from the conversation and just look at yourself: you're struggling to attend to him; wishing one or both of you elsewhere; upholding the idea that you should have to listen to him to be a good person. but why should that be true? you could end up both really hating conversation but talking anyway to preserve... well, to preserve what? a society based on connections you don't really like anyway? you're stressing yourself out by trying to pay attention to him when you really don't want to, and wasting your own time because, despite trying, you're not genuinely interested in what he has to say.

    and then look at him. he's blabbering away, thinking he has a genuine conversation partner - or he kind of suspects that you're being a bit distant/cold and is silently wondering what he did wrong, so he's talking more to try to get you really engaged. either way, he's being somewhat deceived - he's under the impression that you want to talk to him, not that you are forcing yourself to. so then his time is being wasted, too. he'd probably rather have a conversation with someone who actually wants to listen.

    and really, there's no reason you have to listen to him to preserve a good relationship and atmosphere. most of the time, you can politely excuse yourself. there are, of course, some people who are very hard to escape, but usually you can get away.

    those are just the potential reasons i see.

  4. #884
    violaine
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Plus, it can be apparent when Fe-ers are "going through the motions" believing their actions a sufficient concealment of their true feelings or intent. I have observed Fe-ers in conversation, displaying the finest, most congenial smiles, head nods and eye contact, coming across like the following to me: "I will look like I am interested in what 'Joe' has to say because that's what I am supposed to do here, BUT I THINK HE'S AN IDIOT AND JUST WISH HE WOULD SHUT UP." As an FYI, the caps is what an Fi-er is likely hearing you "say" too, and this data has meaning to us. Thus, Fe actions can appear contrived well beyond the necessity of social convention. Fi, at times like this, feels like a kind of sincerity filter. Believe me, 'Joe' may very well be a tool, and I probably wish 'Joe' would shut up too, and I could easily see myself getting trapped in a conversation with him, but just looking like you care about what someone has to say is not enough to convince the whole audience. Sometimes I don't think Fe-ers "get" that fact. It's the root I suppose of why some people can accuse Fe of being "fake", even though in Fe hearts I know, there often reside wonderful, pure feelings and motives.



    Yes, and this is how Fe is thus deceived; I can play the role and do good works or what's socially expected of me, even if my heart is contrary. Fe doesn't seem to know or care otherwise sometimes, assuming more often that because I am being good my actions are coming from a good place in my heart.

    Let's hope the Ni can pick up what's really true instead, to not be so deceived.



    It's a good question. I think we get so close to understanding the Fi - Fe divide, but bridging the gap seems elusive.
    My contribution is not going to be helpful in terms of bridging a divide... *sigh* sorry to do this but the above just seems to my reductionist mind the kind of consideration Fi-users are asking from others. When someone finds a Fi-users' POV suspect or whiny or not interesting I believe they are being asked to nod and smile. Eek! Am I correct or did I completely miss the point?

    On a tangent, I typically get along well with SFPs and NFPs irl. I do clash with people who think their specific needs override the needs of others (and I'm not talking about being the dissenting voice on behalf of science or an intellectual pursuit, I'm talking about someone who thinks their approach is the way even if on balance their way proves to be no more valuable than being a personal preference. Or someone who is in a bad mood who thinks they can say what they like whenever they feel like it and not inspire some ill feeling in me because "they didn't mean it". Anyone who does that too often makes my eyes glaze over. I don't know if it's Fi but I prefer to be far away from it.)

    Anyway, I think Fe and Fi do a nice job of balancing each other out. Both are necessary.

  5. #885
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    My contribution is not going to be helpful in terms of bridging a divide... *sigh* sorry to do this but the above just seems to my reductionist mind the kind of consideration Fi-users are asking from others. When someone finds a Fi-users' POV suspect or whiny or not interesting I believe they are being asked to nod and smile. Eek! Am I correct or did I completely miss the point?
    haha well

    i think personally i hope that you will try to look beyond what you perceive as whining or not-interestingness and try to figure out why i am saying what i am and acting the way i am. i assume that people always have a good reason to say what they are saying, and i hope others will assume that of me too. and if it's still whiny after inspection, i would hope you would wonder why i'm whining - whining is usually underpinned by an unmet desire - and if it's uninteresting, i hope you would engage yourself in something else instead.

    Or someone who is in a bad mood who thinks they can say what they like whenever they feel like it and not inspire some ill feeling in me because "they didn't mean it". Anyone who does that too often makes my eyes glaze over. I don't know if it's Fi but I prefer to be far away from it.)
    just a thought... i can't really blame you for wanting to stay away from that - but i've definitely been guilty of it - and for me it's not so much that i think i can say anything without hurting the other person, it's just that whatever i'm saying seems really important to say at the time (plus an underlying rebellious feeling, amped-up by anger, that we all should be free to say what we want to say). my ENFJ friend called me out on this at one point and it was like a smack in the face. i didn't even realize that i was hurting her so badly.

    and sometimes it's something rather mean - though almost never without truth - and when it is something inflammatory, it's usually a masked desperate cry - (wow this is embarrassing to admit but) when i've said inflammatory things in the past it's sometimes because i've see the other person withdrawing and i'm angry but trying to incite them back into conversing with me, because i feel like at least if we're in contact, we can solve things together. but if they leave then there's no hope for us fixing things between us. and admittedly that's kind of terrifying from my POV (you know the NFJ "doorslam"? being on the receiving end of one of those from a significant other is like the most anxiety-ridden state i have ever been in.), but i also genuinely want both of us to get back in harmony - once i've said my peace. (and i hope they will say theirs too.)

    and when i hear someone else lash out like that, i don't really think about how i need to protect myself as much as i try to fight fire with fire and figure out what's going wrong with them to make them speak/act that way. for as much as we talk about many Fi dom/auxs being selfish i feel like some Fe dom/auxs are kind of selfish in the way that they tend to run away from people when they themselves are hurt, even when the other person is obviously in a great deal of pain too. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia
    There are a lot of times when people don't feel love for their spouse at that moment, yet they choose not to treat them with disrespect. They may feel frustrated with their child, but they don't unleash a verbal tirade that will create lasting damage. [...] Life is made up of a series of tasks which may be unpleasant in the moment, but ultimate create resilience in us, better character, and a more ordered and happy existence.
    i mostly agree with you on this, though i do want to point out that sometimes these things we do for the long-term good can be sort miscalculated. like treating your spouse with disrespect - i'm guessing you mean not saying hurtful things, which i agree is a good idea, but at the same time, i find it kind of disrespectful to feel anger/hurt/etc. toward your spouse and let the issue fester and not let them know why. at least if it's out in the open you can address it together - "i'm feeling upset with you because of ____, how can we solve this together so it doesn't become a long-term issue?" wouldn't it be awful to know the truth that your spouse is hating you, but doesn't trust you enough to talk to you about it? and i don't mean like a daylong wave of anger, but if it becomes a recurring issue. if it starts eating at you inside.

    i also don't agree with unleashing a verbal tirade on your child, but too often i've watched my ESFJ mom be nice and not firm enough with my brother, until she loses it and yells about how hurt she is. again, it's bottling it up for the sake of harmony and the issue becomes a ticking time bomb. if you don't want to get up in the morning, maybe it's just liking your bed a lot, but maybe it's a sign that you're depressed or really need a different job. i just think we have to be careful that we're not convincing ourselves that we're doing these things for the eventual good while losing sight of the moment.

  6. #886
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by violaine View Post
    My contribution is not going to be helpful in terms of bridging a divide... *sigh* sorry to do this but the above just seems to my reductionist mind the kind of consideration Fi-users are asking from others. When someone finds a Fi-users' POV suspect or whiny or not interesting I believe they are being asked to nod and smile. Eek! Am I correct or did I completely miss the point?
    Look at it this way. If I make a post and someone disagrees with me in a rational, logical but gruff way, I'm assuming that he didn't mean any personal attacks and he was just debating my idea in his preferred method of communication. There are plenty of threads saying we should be less sensitive and look at the message instead of the way it is being delivered.

    Now, why can't I get the same benefit of doubt when I'm writing something that sounds whiny to others? In fact, I think this post probably sounds whiny and like a rant to some people *plays the victim card*
    Last edited by William K; 12-02-2010 at 10:32 AM. Reason: Changed a lot of people to some people. Feeling optimistic today
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    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  7. #887
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    haha well

    i think personally i hope that you will try to look beyond what you perceive as whining or not-interestingness and try to figure out why i am saying what i am and acting the way i am. i assume that people always have a good reason to say what they are saying, and i hope others will assume that of me too. and if it's still whiny after inspection, i would hope you would wonder why i'm whining - whining is usually underpinned by an unmet desire - and if it's uninteresting, i hope you would engage yourself in something else instead.
    Well, I dig with people by default. I dig even if I'm not enjoying their POV because I think it's respectful and I'm interested in most people. I also think people always have reasons for what they say and do and I'm interested in those.


    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    just a thought... i can't really blame you for wanting to stay away from that - but i've definitely been guilty of it - and for me it's not so much that i think i can say anything without hurting the other person, it's just that whatever i'm saying seems really important to say at the time (plus an underlying rebellious feeling, amped-up by anger, that we all should be free to say what we want to say). my ENFJ friend called me out on this at one point and it was like a smack in the face. i didn't even realize that i was hurting her so badly.

    and sometimes it's something rather mean - though almost never without truth - and when it is something inflammatory, it's usually a masked desperate cry - (wow this is embarrassing to admit but) when i've said inflammatory things in the past it's sometimes because i've see the other person withdrawing and i'm angry but trying to incite them back into conversing with me, because i feel like at least if we're in contact, we can solve things together. but if they leave then there's no hope for us fixing things between us. and admittedly that's kind of terrifying from my POV (you know the NFJ "doorslam"? being on the receiving end of one of those from a significant other is like the most anxiety-ridden state i have ever been in.), but i also genuinely want both of us to get back in harmony - once i've said my peace. (and i hope they will say theirs too.)

    and when i hear someone else lash out like that, i don't really think about how i need to protect myself as much as i try to fight fire with fire and figure out what's going wrong with them to make them speak/act that way. for as much as we talk about many Fi dom/auxs being selfish i feel like some Fe dom/auxs are kind of selfish in the way that they tend to run away from people when they themselves are hurt. :/
    With regard to the above, I guess I just get to a point where I think "why should I?" I'm not talking about the occasional letting off steam, I'm talking about people whose pattern is to take their bad mood out on me cos they are having a bad day. To my mind it's like one way communication. And it will be that they are having an off day, nothing deeper than that. I figure they can go tell it to someone else.

    But what I'm getting at in the above scenario is the Fe user is painted as "fake" for hanging in a conversation they might not be enjoying (if it's me, I'm going to be trying to find a way to enjoy it), yet it seems I'm being asked to go against what I really feel (i.e. employ that same "fakeness") when someone lashes out or I find them boring if they are a Fi-user and feel they have good reason to do what they're doing. Hmm, I'd go so far as to say I don't ever want to enable that kind of behavior by just letting someone be that way around me, that's how much it irks me.

    I don't think I'm missing anything in summing up that way. But that's what I'm fixed on in all of this, the inconsistency of not seeing the value in a "Fe" way of acting unless it's beneficial to you (I use that in the universal sense of the word) personally.

    I would reiterate that I think Fe/Fi need to balance each other out btw. I don't think Fe is superior but it prob does make people around me feel better than if I were less so. Not so great for me a lot of the time though, as I have mentioned elsewhere.

  8. #888
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    haha well
    ...
    and sometimes it's something rather mean - though almost never without truth - and when it is something inflammatory, it's usually a masked desperate cry - (wow this is embarrassing to admit but) when i've said inflammatory things in the past it's sometimes because i've see the other person withdrawing and i'm angry but trying to incite them back into conversing with me, because i feel like at least if we're in contact, we can solve things together. but if they leave then there's no hope for us fixing things between us. and admittedly that's kind of terrifying from my POV (you know the NFJ "doorslam"? being on the receiving end of one of those from a significant other is like the most anxiety-ridden state i have ever been in.), but i also genuinely want both of us to get back in harmony - once i've said my peace. (and i hope they will say theirs too.)

    and when i hear someone else lash out like that, i don't really think about how i need to protect myself as much as i try to fight fire with fire and figure out what's going wrong with them to make them speak/act that way. for as much as we talk about many Fi dom/auxs being selfish i feel like some Fe dom/auxs are kind of selfish in the way that they tend to run away from people when they themselves are hurt, even when the other person is obviously in a great deal of pain too. :/
    I think when healthy Fe users run away, what they are attempting to do is keep from expressing unprocessed ideas that may be incorrect or may hurt the other person. They do not want to be washed over with a wave of emotion that just has to be expressed. They would like time to examine it, see if it is valid and figure out how to present that in a way that will be most readily appreciated and understood.

    I think perhaps it would help NFPs if we stated straight out that we were coming back and that leaving for a little bit or distancing ourselves for a bit is not a rejection, but rather has to do with our own way of processing. When you continue pushing, you are almost sure to do lasting damage that will take a long time to repair, you create even more emotional "noise" for us to sort through (and we're already feeling overwhelmed trying to decide what are the most important aspects of what we are feeling or want to say), and we probably will quickly become blunt or overbearing to you. This makes a Fe Te feedback loop that is productive for no one.

    While you may get over the initial emotion you were experiencing that had to be expressed, we are deeply affected by it for a long time. Things can't just be the same tomorrow if some things were said in the heat of the moment, even if we forgive it. If we say things that hurt you, it also is very troubling to us for a long time.

    Either way, when I retreat, I am trying to protect the other person and also need some reprieve, even if only for a few minutes. Inciting non-productive conflict to get me talking will make me dislike you GREATLY over the long term. If you have a problem, in my books you need to either take time to identify what it is and explain that you need my help to get that need met or else you need to preface what you say by explaining that you are just thinking out loud and need me to be your sounding board. If I can see you are hurting, I'm not going to leave for a long time, but I also don't want to hurt you worse by saying what I am thinking. You wouldn't like it if I invalidated your emotions and said, "Quit being such a selfish drama queen and just grow up and think of someone other than yourself", so I leave until I get some more perspective, sort out what it is that you might really be asking for and how I think I may be able to respond to that.

    i mostly agree with you on this, though i do want to point out that sometimes these things we do for the long-term good can be sort miscalculated. like treating your spouse with disrespect - i'm guessing you mean not saying hurtful things, which i agree is a good idea, but at the same time, i find it kind of disrespectful to feel anger/hurt/etc. toward your spouse and let the issue fester and not let them know why. at least if it's out in the open you can address it together - "i'm feeling upset with you because of ____, how can we solve this together so it doesn't become a long-term issue?" wouldn't it be awful to know the truth that your spouse is hating you, but doesn't trust you enough to talk to you about it? and i don't mean like a daylong wave of anger, but if it becomes a recurring issue. if it starts eating at you inside.

    i also don't agree with unleashing a verbal tirade on your child, but too often i've watched my ESFJ mom be nice and not firm enough with my brother, until she loses it and yells about how hurt she is. again, it's bottling it up for the sake of harmony and the issue becomes a ticking time bomb. if you don't want to get up in the morning, maybe it's just liking your bed a lot, but maybe it's a sign that you're depressed or really need a different job. i just think we have to be careful that we're not convincing ourselves that we're doing these things for the eventual good while losing sight of the moment.
    Regarding treating the spouse with disrespect - I don't necessarily mean not saying hurtful things. Some things that are important issues to address may be painful to the other person. However if they are addressed in a solution-oriented way, a person should not just be spewing out perjoratives. By not showing disrespect, I mean doing what you feel like regardless of how it affects the other person. Not cheating on your partner even when someone attractive comes along and the relationship is not going smoothly, not lying, restraining yourself when it would be easier to say something that makes them look foolish or stupid, etc. I think it is disrespectful to not care enough about the relationship to address the problems within it. I don't believe in letting conflict go unresolved or in not defending appropriate boundaries for how you expect to be treated. However, it should be approached in a way that is solution-oriented.

    In all of the aforementioned cases, the behaviour is often a symptom of a deeper problem. Of course that problem must be addressed. However, giving in to the easiest behaviour at the time is not being true to yourself and it keeps you from addressing the root cause, because you are merely coping in the short term. In the example of the child, you are right that Fe users need to be more explicit earlier on rather than just getting angry once they are at the end of their string. If you want the child to really understand what is wrong with their behaviour though, it shouldn't be done out of raw emotion when you are feeling angry either. You bring it up because that is what is in the child's best interests and it should be firm but dispassionate so that they do not confuse it with being a personal issue of you rejecting them or you losing your temper at them. With sleeping in, people need to look at their routines - how are they preparing for the next morning? Is there stress in their lives that they can impact through a change of circumstances, exercise, more sleep, talking etc? Again, I agree with you that the root cause should not go unnoticed. Either extreme - soley gritting your teeth and bearing it, or doing what you are most inclined to do are not healthy.

  9. #889
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    What fidelia said. I've definitely had damage caused to relationships with Fi-ers IRL because someone felt the need to unload all this stuff on me, directed at me, and I felt kind of blindsided and dumped on. In the moment, it's almost impossible for me to think about what's causing the other person's pain. I know what's causing the other person's pain, and I respect it, but I can't deal with someone yelling or having a meltdown to convey it to me. Something within me just withdraws. Now if it's something I'm witnessing with another two friends, I'm able to say to one, "Well, she's just reacting because of x. She shouldn't have yelled at you, but I think she's just frustrated..." etc. If it's directed at me, it's very, very hard for me to deal with. Like fidelia said, for you, it's over in minutes. For us, it's something that stays with us, and sometimes never really goes away, even after we've forgiven you. (And I really, really hate it when people say hurtful or exaggerated things to provoke a reaction in me.) We have to have a VERY special relationship for me to want to resolve conflicts like this on a regular basis. Otherwise, I might decide it's not worth the drama and pain. It wouldn't be an outright decision so much as a feeling of wanting to distance myself or be more casual friends or something.
    Something Witty

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    (And I really, really hate it when people say hurtful or exaggerated things to provoke a reaction in me.)
    I just wanted to give that a

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