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  1. #871
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights
    i'm going to be really unfortunately honest here and say that when i get in an emotional funk, i can act really asinine because of those carried-over emotions. i don't think Fi is about emotions, or being a "train wreck", but i think it's an unfortunate side effect of Fi and Ne that emotion can sometimes flow into things it's not necessarily meant to flow into. if i feel like i've been written off earlier in the day, and then someone ignores me in a disrespectful way, it'll be much harder to respond to them neutrally, because the feelings of devaluation have already been floating around in my head.
    Interesting.

    I can identify with the Ne angle in that individual incidents are not isolated to me -- I automatically see how they fit into the larger whole -- and so enough accumulation of those incidents can lead to an aggregate "bad feeling" toward someone. This can make it difficult for me at times to not feel that sort of built-up negativity toward an individual with a pattern of behavior that rubs me the wrong way.

    However, I usually don't let it splash out all over the place and just make a mess. It's still controlled by Judgment -- whether it's my T rationality telling me what is fair and unfair in a given situation, or my F sense of propriety telling me what is appropriate for the given situation. If I feel the situation is inappropriate for my feelings to be expressed, I just don't express them. I can even seem fine while I'm actually really upset. You'll find out what I think and feel if the situation changes and now I feel I am in a postion where I can choose to express my feelings.

    I had trouble understanding my ESFP son, because he's far more like what you describe. If he's having a "yuck" moment, it's basically crap that is spewed over anyone in the general vicinity. Even if he tries to control it, he has a lot of trouble doing so. It's just there and prevalent. I work hard to accept that it's very difficult, for whatever reason, and try to be supportive, and work on more positive ways for him to process stuff (that fit his style); but I still do feel frustration sometimes over it.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #872
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    I find that interesting too. I compartmentalize more and don't take things out on others in the general vicinity (and I do have emotions btw.. I have typed as an F before, after all ). I think I've even been strangely courteous and aware of pleasantries, even when I'm fixated in my anger on a particular person. There was one guy I was going to get confrontational with, for example, but before I did so, I grabbed his beer and put it on the counter (it was at a friend's apartment.. I didn't want to make a mess).. then I slowly nudged him into a corner away from others. I have periods of general angst, but I think if it comes out on others, it's usually some unhealthy Ni thing. I might vent some issues to a friend, but then shoot down their ideas.. I'll get really cynical and detailed on multiple angles of a suggestion, play out scenarios, and how it sucks. It's not pleasant, but I'm not really saying anything in a way that sounds highly irritated with them in particular.

    BTW Jennifer, it's interesting that you post in this thread often. If I am a Ti dom, I'm still kind of interested in what Fe is supposed to be for people of those types. Sometimes I get the impression it's supposed to be nonexistent, but that doesn't sound right.

  3. #873
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Seriously, I want you to know that if I was at someone else's house, at a party someone else was throwing, and some person kept saying "god this is boring" (openly, loudly, not to themselves or in a private whisper) or something similar during multiple activities, even if I agreed I would think that person was ridiculously rude and immature.

    It's one thing to say that to your best friend, significant other, or your mom, or especially in your own house, but to just go around being "truthy" and self-absorbed is childish and counter-productive, unless something TRULY HEINOUS is going on.

    I mean, I thought Feelers were trying so hard to defend that Fi and Fe are about "ethical codes" and not about feelings...you're making it sound like Fi is about feelings, not about ethics. I can see being "truthy" and even rude if something violates your ethical code, but being truthy just because you're bored or annoyed is just immature. I'm sorry.

    I don't even really believe in Fi and Fe anymore, but that's my review of that particular behavior, and my continuing defense that being a Feeler is about ethics, and not about being an emotional train wreck.
    Holy shit. Someone needs a hug.

  4. #874
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i believe that, in general, all people have a reason to act as they are acting.
    *nods* If it's causing trouble, it's your job to understand why they are acting like they are instead of assuming they're ridiculous, and their job to recognize if their behavior is out of line instead of assuming they're acceptable.

  5. #875
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    Holy fishsticks. I never expected my anecdote to get so many posts.

  6. #876
    Oberon
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    If we're going to have Fe and Fi, we ought to also have Fo and Fum.

    It just stands to reason.

  7. #877
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Didn't you see that thread?

  8. #878
    Oberon
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    No.

    (I'll spare you the whole "why would I have posted that if I'd seen the thread?" thing...)

  9. #879
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    Seriously, I want you to know that if I was at someone else's house, at a party someone else was throwing, and some person kept saying "god this is boring" (openly, loudly, not to themselves or in a private whisper) or something similar during multiple activities, even if I agreed I would think that person was ridiculously rude and immature.

    It's one thing to say that to your best friend, significant other, or your mom, or especially in your own house, but to just go around being "truthy" and self-absorbed is childish and counter-productive, unless something TRULY HEINOUS is going on...
    I didn't read the whole discussion, but I have noticed people equating being "truthy" as you call it here with being honest or objective and that has always confused me especially if they are being truthy about something based on their perception. Saying it's "boring", "ugly", "stupid", might have some type of value that multiple people would agree with, but more often I've found bluntness to be subjective opinion that isn't nearly as truthy in the external world as it is inside the person. I've always admired the people who can say, "I feel this way about something, but it is because I've been influenced by x and y, and I know it is not necessarily a universal truth". Confusing perception and reality is about the least truthy thing a person can do.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
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    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
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    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  10. #880
    Senior Member Tiltyred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Plus, it can be apparent when Fe-ers are "going through the motions" believing their actions a sufficient concealment of their true feelings or intent. I have observed Fe-ers in conversation, displaying the finest, most congenial smiles, head nods and eye contact, coming across like the following to me: "I will look like I am interested in what 'Joe' has to say because that's what I am supposed to do here, BUT I THINK HE'S AN IDIOT AND JUST WISH HE WOULD SHUT UP." As an FYI, the caps is what an Fi-er is likely hearing you "say" too, and this data has meaning to us. Thus, Fe actions can appear contrived well beyond the necessity of social convention. Fi, at times like this, feels like a kind of sincerity filter. Believe me, 'Joe' may very well be a tool, and I probably wish 'Joe' would shut up too, and I could easily see myself getting trapped in a conversation with him, but just looking like you care about what someone has to say is not enough to convince the whole audience. Sometimes I don't think Fe-ers "get" that fact. It's the root I suppose of why some people can accuse Fe of being "fake", even though in Fe hearts I know, there often reside wonderful, pure feelings and motives.



    Yes, and this is how Fe is thus deceived; I can play the role and do good works or what's socially expected of me, even if my heart is contrary. Fe doesn't seem to know or care otherwise sometimes, assuming more often that because I am being good my actions are coming from a good place in my heart.

    Let's hope the Ni can pick up what's really true instead, to not be so deceived.



    It's a good question. I think we get so close to understanding the Fi - Fe divide, but bridging the gap seems elusive.

    I don't understand this criticism of Fe. If I'm nodding and smiling at Joe, doing the best I can while fervently wishing myself or him elsewhere, what am I doing wrong? This starts off with the best of intentions, i.e., my trying to be sincerely interested in what Joe has to say to me. It wears down to trying my best not to make Joe feel bad by snubbing him. Its last vestige of genuine good will ends at a golden rule effort not to embarrass someone else in public by walking away from him or being to obvious about wanting to get away/making it too obvious I'm not enjoying the conversation. If Joe's really got me pinned to the wall and won't let up, and my smile gets more and more forced, and someone across the room sees that it's forced ... why does that make me bad? or fake? What else would you want done? I mean, besides making Joe a more entertaining conversationalist.

    I may very well think I'm a prig and I don't have a loving enough heart and be upset with myself that I can't bring myself around to enjoying Joe's company, but whatever wickedness or lack of wholesome good I may feel about myself, I can at least be polite to Joe.

    I don't think Fe is that oblivious that they think because people do the right things, their feelings are in perfect alignment. But it's even the more noble to do the right thing if it kills you, isn't it?

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