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  1. #841
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cafe View Post
    She is really quite easy to please contrary to how Fi is sounding to me in this thread right now.
    Well, this is a thread of truthiness ... right? How many people do you think I am this candid with about Fi IRL?

    We Fi-doms are easy to get along with ... 99% of the time at least ... so sweet and kind and nice. Really we are!
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
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    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
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    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    babysitting? i think this is a fair Fe-Fi dividing line. Fe users tend to see universal behavior standards - so you can conceptualize "babysitting" as being a good thing, probably with rules that anyone could enforce, but to me that term seems rather insulting, as if you think you're better than everyone else because you know how we all should act and have the right to direct everyone to act your way. personally, i would prefer that you'd only babysit if it was an event you were hosting. i understand it in that case (i've hosted enough events to know ), but if it were someone else's event - or nobody's event - i would feel that babysitting would be disrespectful to the host and to other people, in that it's an implication that people don't know how to conduct themselves in a way that is good for them, and also that they shouldn't be allowed to act otherwise.
    the "baby-sitting" can be helpful, though, because there can be a person who more neutrally keeps people in the group from fighting as harshly, a peacemaker, and ...someone who helps to explain each person's side to the other...of course in that case I think of it as more of a referee

    but in an event where you were a guest and someone's house and one host family member was rude to another family member and you stepped in and corrected them...well...okay..this was actually a thread on INTJforum ...if you were at someone's house and didn't know the people extremely well would you tell people within the household how to behave toward one another...

    Personally, I think the obvious answer here is ABSOLUTELY NOT, and an ISFJ agreed with me. Guess who replied in the thread that they WOULD correct someone? An ENFP and an ENFJ.

    And let me tell you something, I know an ESFJ who wouldn't dream of doing such a thing, either. It actually seems more Fe to me to "know better" than to correct people you don't know very well if you're a guest in their house.

    Or maybe this isn't an Fi/Fe issue, but that's what this post made me think of.

  3. #843
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    Well, this is a thread of truthiness ... right? How many people do you think I am this candid with about Fi IRL?

    We Fi-doms are easy to get along with ... 99% of the time at least ... so sweet and kind and nice. Really we are!
    I've actually had a hard time being fair with buying stuff for the kids because between the four of them she always acts the happiest with anything I get her. She was always giving her (and other people's) things away when she was little. And you're right -- people (and animals) just love her because she is so sweet. If I would ever mention a temper episode no one would ever believe that she would ever do anything like that. She has a much warmer vibe than I do for sure.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  4. #844
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    @ marmalade - huh, well, i guess that's just specific to Fe and Fis i know. i know an ISFJ who "herds" people around. what i understood as "babysitting" is a specific type of people-directing, not in terms of just speaking up, but in terms of actively influencing people to behave in the way you want them to behave. personally if i had a serious problem with something going on i might speak up regardless of whose party it was.

    you guys know i'm a fan of Fi-Fe love though. not trying to separate, just trying to clarify. it helps us all understand one another.

  5. #845
    Emerging Tallulah's Avatar
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    Okay, this is making sense now. skylights' example was very helpful--I agree that being trampled by Fe is not ever the right solution. I think in the absence of the Fi voice in a group situation, that's the role I fill, since I speak Fe language, but there's very often some Fe user whose voice is louder than mine (my ENFJ friend, in my band situation). When the majority doesn't seem to be considering the feelings or concerns of others, and I feel like they could easily be accommodated, I'm usually the one that speaks up. Coming to a compromise that makes people feel completely overlooked will usually bite the decision makers later.

    I think talking about this stuff abstractly is harder, because the Fe users are usually thinking about situations where they HAVE been listening, but there are dissenters that can't be pleased, and are attributing that to Fi. Meanwhile, Fi users are thinking of times like in skylights' example, where individuals have been trampled because the other members of the group can't be bothered, or it would make their own lives harder, and are attributing that to Fe. Like skylights points out, in real life, we're probably using a combination of the two more often than not.
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  6. #846
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I think talking about this stuff abstractly is harder, because the Fe users are usually thinking about situations where they HAVE been listening, but there are dissenters that can't be pleased, and are attributing that to Fi. Meanwhile, Fi users are thinking of times like in skylights' example, where individuals have been trampled because the other members of the group can't be bothered, or it would make their own lives harder, and are attributing that to Fe. Like skylights points out, in real life, we're probably using a combination of the two more often than not.
    Although I don't agree we are using a combo of Fe and Fi per se, I do agree that one would have to have insight into the typology of people involved, and try to look beyond behaviour to ascertain evidence of Fe or Fi ... it's why I try to only give examples where I feel sure of the dynamics and I think I can make a specific point.

    Fe can be a loud dissenter IRL and Fi can be too ... the underpinnings of that is what's interesting to try to examine, appreciating each others POV.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  7. #847
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    I'm confused. Do people really think nice Fe-users purposely leave people out? I always make sure all individuals are happy/participating (sometimes, for someone to be happy, they shouldn't participate).

  8. #848
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    Psycho-analyzation help?

    I was hosting a party and had planned and prepared for what I thought would be fun activities. There were two Fi users there that I know of. One of them spent a lot of time on the activities, and he didn't comment about liking or not liking them. The other one said in a whiny tone that the game was boring for multiple games. I told her, harshly, that if she didn't like it, then she didn't need to participate. I didn't like her attitude because 1. she's a tactful and sensitive, so such a comment was surprising, so it felt like a personal attack on my fun-making abilities and 2. it lowered the fun atmosphere (ironic since that person has Fe in socionics, which is all about atmospheres). I didn't like her behavior and left her to herself (she did, though, occupy herself). If she had simply said she didn't want to participate, I would have gone out of my way to make sure she had something to do.

    Does this show Fe vs. Fi or not really?

    I know one thing for sure--me leaving her to herself was my temporary-doorslam technique. When someone shocks me by doing something hurtful that I wouldn't expect them to do, I cut of all contact except forced contact with that person so I can deal with my emotions on my own. When I'm done processing my emotions, I either confront the person, or decide it's not worth bringing up anymore (in the minor example of the party, I continued to be friendly to her after the games).

  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    Psycho-analyzation help?

    I was hosting a party and had planned and prepared for what I thought would be fun activities. There were two Fi users there that I know of. One of them spent a lot of time on the activities, and he didn't comment about liking or not liking them. The other one said in a whiny tone that the game was boring for multiple games. I told her, harshly, that if she didn't like it, then she didn't need to participate. I didn't like her attitude because 1. she's a tactful and sensitive, so such a comment was surprising, so it felt like a personal attack on my fun-making abilities and 2. it lowered the fun atmosphere (ironic since that person has Fe in socionics, which is all about atmospheres). I didn't like her behavior and left her to herself (she did, though, occupy herself). If she had simply said she didn't want to participate, I would have gone out of my way to make sure she had something to do.

    Does this show Fe vs. Fi or not really?

    I know one thing for sure--me leaving her to herself was my temporary-doorslam technique. When someone shocks me by doing something hurtful that I wouldn't expect them to do, I cut of all contact except forced contact with that person so I can deal with my emotions on my own. When I'm done processing my emotions, I either confront the person, or decide it's not worth bringing up anymore (in the minor example of the party, I continued to be friendly to her after the games).
    Hee hee, that "I'm not having fun" scenario - I can understand your frustration. It probably felt like she was failing at a "duty" as a guest to at least try to keep the atmosphere civil. I'm Fi but I have had this complaint numerous times about my Fe (INTP) friend. Perhaps she is actually INFP though... Sometimes she gets into funks or starts bringing the group down and then others (like myself usually) have to start tapdancing our way around it and counter it.

    For your friend though, yeah, she really didn't to play that game! LOL. Unrefined Fi without the polish of articulation or processing, it's basically the needs of a child sometime. Hey, we all have an inner child inside of us, in some ways Fi just puts the user much more in touch with them. :P I think I'm usually pretty level and diplomatic but sometimes I get this gut feeling of "yuck" or "yay!" or "boo!" and it just comes out like that. If I don't like something or I am annoyed it is very hard to mask it. Even when I try to mask it, my friends (and people I date) can tell immediately and tell me how obvious it is. Your friend probably could have articulated it better (processed that gut Fi response) but you know, she really must not have been having fun. LOL. I don't think she meant it as an attack on you at all, I'm just thinking for me, when I have those gut responses, I am so in grips of it, it's purely directed at the thing piquing me. Because her Fi got piqued, her normal tact went out the window. She could have had a ball the whole night and thought you put on the best get together ever - and that game will just be it's own separate unpleasant moment in her head.

    In general, Fi users generally will try to keep it to themselves if they are in a funk. HOWEVER, people who are really in the grips of Fi won't even be aware of how much their mood or whatnot is affecting others or the group.

    I told her, harshly, that if she didn't like it, then she didn't need to participate.
    You're mean.

    LOLOL.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

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  10. #850
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Random Ness View Post
    Psycho-analyzation help?

    I was hosting a party and had planned and prepared for what I thought would be fun activities. There were two Fi users there that I know of. One of them spent a lot of time on the activities, and he didn't comment about liking or not liking them. The other one said in a whiny tone that the game was boring for multiple games. I told her, harshly, that if she didn't like it, then she didn't need to participate. I didn't like her attitude because 1. she's a tactful and sensitive, so such a comment was surprising, so it felt like a personal attack on my fun-making abilities and 2. it lowered the fun atmosphere (ironic since that person has Fe in socionics, which is all about atmospheres). I didn't like her behavior and left her to herself (she did, though, occupy herself). If she had simply said she didn't want to participate, I would have gone out of my way to make sure she had something to do.

    Does this show Fe vs. Fi or not really?

    I know one thing for sure--me leaving her to herself was my temporary-doorslam technique. When someone shocks me by doing something hurtful that I wouldn't expect them to do, I cut of all contact except forced contact with that person so I can deal with my emotions on my own. When I'm done processing my emotions, I either confront the person, or decide it's not worth bringing up anymore (in the minor example of the party, I continued to be friendly to her after the games).
    Hee hee, that "I'm not having fun" scenario - I can understand your frustration. It probably felt like she was failing at a "duty" as a guest to at least try to keep the atmosphere civil. I'm Fi but I have had this complaint numerous times about my Fe (INTP) friend. Perhaps she is actually INFP though... Sometimes she gets into funks or starts bringing the group down and then others (like myself usually) have to start tapdancing our way around it and counter it.

    For your friend though, yeah, she really didn't to play that game! LOL. Unrefined Fi without the polish of articulation or processing, it's basically the needs of a child sometime. Hey, we all have an inner child inside of us, in some ways Fi just puts the user much more in touch with them. :P I think I'm usually pretty level and diplomatic but sometimes I get this gut feeling of "yuck" or "yay!" or "boo!" and it just comes out like that. If I don't like something or I am annoyed it is very hard to mask it even if I'm diplomatic about it. Even when I try to mask it, my friends (and people I date) can tell immediately and tell me how obvious it is. Your friend probably could have articulated it better (processed that gut Fi response) but you know, she really must not have been having fun *with that particular game*. LOL.

    I don't think she meant it as an attack on you at all or even thought of it as a reflection on you at all. I'm just thinking for me, when I have those gut responses, I am so in grips of it, it's purely directed at the thing piquing me. Because her Fi got piqued, her normal tact went out the window. She could have had a ball the whole night and thought you put on the best get together ever - and that game will just be it's own separate unpleasant moment in her head.

    In general, Fi users generally will try to keep it to themselves if they are in a funk. HOWEVER, people who are really in the grips of Fi won't even be aware of how much their mood or whatnot is affecting others or the group.

    I told her, harshly, that if she didn't like it, then she didn't need to participate.
    You're mean.

    LOLOL.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

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