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  1. #631
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiltyred View Post
    But you grow out of such things, hopefully. I mean, I hope you don't expect people to explain their feelings to you all the time just so you know it's not about you. It's almost never about you. (At least, that's been my experience in my life -- it's almost never about me.) If you can assume that up front, maybe it can help you stop introjecting like a madwoman. That's not good for you, and often a pain in the butt for the other person (ask me how I know that, too).
    Is this directed at me?

    I don't assume that every reaction from someone else is related to me, nor have I ever done that. That's not what I was implying. I am sensitive and may take things personally when they were not meant to be from time to time, but not to a point where I think everything revolves around me. Quite frankly, I don't seek out explanations on most people's feelings or even need that kind of reassurance.

    And yes, with age, even that sensitivity has lessened, as I think Si-usage improves and is not used in an imbalanced, negative way that beats yourself up about the past.

    I'm talking about a feeling of alienation - everyone expresses a similar attitude, one which I do not share, or they easily grasp what is appropriate, which is less obvious to me. It's not that I am entirely in a bubble, but there is a bit of an obliviousness to these things and it does cause problems at times. I wonder why I am not succeeding in some area where others do, and because I focus on the underlying concept, I fail to see where I missed the Fe expectations for what is correct. This is not entirely in my imagination - I am not the only INFP who reports being viewed as odd in a negative way by others. Just as people can feel they walk on eggshells with Fi because its values are so hidden & nuances hard to define, I feel I walk on eggshells with the collective Fe, not understanding the nuances of its standards. Even when I think I get it, I still managed to fail. There's a delicate line to walk between observing others to understand these nuances and comparing yourself and then feeling defective.

    From the INFP growth page at personalitypage.com...potential problems:

    -May be unaware of appropriate social behavior
    -May be oblivious to their personal appearance, or to appropriate dress
    -May come across as eccentric, or perhaps even generally strange to others, without being aware of it


    There are moments in which you become "aware" of it, and it's usually in some Si reviewing of what has been, and yes, it can be distorted a bit and focus on only the negative. Generally, this is not my default mindset, but it doesn't increase confidence when interacting with new people.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  2. #632
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    You know what I LOVE about this thread? For the first time I feel like Fi is recognized for what it's worth. However *bizarre* or *alien* or whatever it is Fi can seem to others, it wasn't called pretentious, or high and mighty, or full of bullshit.

    There were genuine questions about what it's like. How it works. Without those usual sceptical and snide remarks implying that it's a bunch of bullshit and wishful thinking as well as boasting.

    Maybe it's not always meant that way and that's perhaps part of that Fe-feedback thing that we're having difficulty interpreting properly, but..it's nice to know it's not the only way this discussion can go

    I don't mind Fi being bizarre to people or alien. I have to admit though that it's a relief to see that people are actually believing what I'm saying for once and are expressing the genuine concerns and things they wanna understand better, even if those include critical questioning on the moral and ethical value of the behaviors likely to be caused by Fi. Though there's still a lot of apprehensiveness and perhaps some uncomfortableness going on, there's for the first time, imo, no judging or flat-out dismissing.

    There's a bridge. I just hope it's there to stay.

    And I hope we Fi-users are extending you the same courtesy wrt Fe
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  3. #633
    can't handcuff the wind Z Buck McFate's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    eeep, for educational purposes, I will jump in and say (since here I can be 3rd party, not having the questions directed right to me) that these seem like loaded questions, even though I don't think you mean them that way.

    They feel dangerous to me as an Fi user; I would be extremely wary trying to answer them, for fear I would offend you. Because my sense is that you are poised on the edge of being annoyed, and you're not yet, but could be if I step in the wrong direction.
    I've gotten the impression it's best to just be blunt with esoteric, but I do hope if I'm wrong about that she'll say something?

    Her post did set off my own batch of crying babies and barking dogs and whatnot- all those silent yet blaring introverted alarms- and it seemed important (if only because, in the past, when EW sets off my alarms I've noticed it usually means she's also setting off similar alarms in other people) to point out for the sake of communication. When the alarms go off- the inconsistencies need to be addressed in order to give weight to what the other person is saying, or the distraction of them is too much to keep following the conversation. Maybe that's why the questions incite wariness though- because they are a result of the silent alarms going off.

    edit: and thanks, PB, for pointing out a potential problem. It gives me the opportunity to point out that I do hope she says something to me if I'm being too blunt or something.
    Reality is a collective hunch. -Lily Tomlin

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  4. #634
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    i dunno satine, recently it looks like we've gone from trying to equally bounce back and forth from positives and negatives of both to "wow Fi users are so selfish". and that's not to say that "wow Fe users are ostracizing jerks" hasn't come up either.

    still... F is about both oneself and everyone else. Fi looks inward both at oneself and at others' inner selves. it cares for the inner self because if everyone's inner self is healed, we can have external harmony. Fe looks outward at interpersonal relationships, which both involve oneself and others. it cares for the external relationships because if we have external harmony, everyone's inner selves can be healed, including one's own.

    they are the same letter. they do the same thing. they take care of people, both oneself and everyone else. and if we can't maintain that awareness in a Fe-Fi thread, what's the point? we'll end up, rather ironically, focusing only on how we don't take care of one another.

    if i've learned anything from living with my Fe dom mother and having a Fe dom best friend, it's that we need to give one another the benefit of the doubt... generally upon hearing the others' side it suddenly becomes rather clear why they did what they did. it drives me up a wall how fast we are (myself, also) to assign negative qualities to others but not to assume that we might demonstrate those, too, in a way that we just don't see. we are each somewhat blinded by our own perspective.
    Last edited by skylights; 09-28-2010 at 09:46 PM. Reason: typo lol

  5. #635
    Strongly Ambivalent Ivy's Avatar
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    EW is, of course, welcome to participate, and anyone is still welcome to post formatted examples like the OP- but people don't own or host threads here except blogs. The discussion that has ensued seems very much on-topic and it's not necessary to force everyone to change their participation now because the OP thinks they should.
    The one who buggers a fire burns his penis
    -anonymous graffiti in the basilica at Pompeii

  6. #636
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    F is about both oneself and everyone else. Fi looks inward both at oneself and at others' inner selves. it cares for the inner self because if everyone's inner self is healed, we can have external harmony. Fe looks outward at interpersonal relationships, which both involve oneself and others. it cares for the external relationships because if we have external harmony, everyone's inner selves can be healed, including one's own.
    I think too it's important to remember, again, that these are simply preferences. It doesn't mean the Fi-user isn't going to care for external harmony or be attuned to and place importance on interpersonal dynamics, nor that the Fe-user isn't going to value and see a lot of importance in inner awareness. As in all things I think finding some semblance of a balance is best; but, I'm also aware that there's the camp who doesn't really see as much value in that, and instead believe that focusing on ones preferences/strengths is of most value.

    I also think again this is where it's easy to want to fall into the trap of making mbti really black-and-white. I mean, the nature of it is such that it is a means of describing and highlighting differences - obviously we each have preferences. BUT, I also believe there's a spectrum within all that gets lost in these sorts of discussions -- so some will perhaps be extreme Fi or Fe, with little of the opposite, others will fall somewhere in between. I think it's this spectrum that is what creates so much disagreement in threads, as well as why some Fi users don't relate to certain 'Fi things' and some Fe users don't relate to certain 'Fe things' (because respectively, both have decent access to the other 'F' function).

    And of course the ongoing issue that'll never really go away in any sort of mbti discussion - the fact that we each have different ideas of what constitutes Fi vs. Fe (or any of the other 6 functions), and more problematically, that we assign certain behaviors to certain functions.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  7. #637
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^ well, maybe i didn't communicate my central point well, which is that it would be nice if people would stop saying things like "your POV is so selfish" without thinking about how theirs is selfish too. or ostracizing. or whatever negative quality they feel like assigning today.

    i completely agree with you otherwise.

  8. #638
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    ^ i think you missed my point a bit, which is that it would be nice if people would stop saying things like "hey your POV is selfish" without thinking about how theirs is selfish too.

    i completely agree with you otherwise.
    Ah, yeah, I did totally miss your point. Sorry. I was just doing what I do (I guess!) and taking part of what you wrote and adding my own thoughts.
    Also, much of the time when I'm responding to someone, it's not really addressed to them directly/personally at all, it's more just talking about a certain idea/concept that they brought up and adding my own thoughts about it. I tend to do that -- just broadcast stuff to the world at large.. unless I'm asking questions of the person, it should probably be assumed I'm just in broadcast-mode. lol.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  9. #639
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    Ah, yeah, I did totally miss your point. Sorry. I was just doing what I do (I guess!) and taking part of what you wrote and adding my own thoughts.
    Also, much of the time when I'm responding to someone, it's not really addressed to them directly/personally at all, it's more just talking about a certain idea/concept that they brought up and adding my own thoughts about it. I tend to do that -- just broadcast stuff to the world at large.. unless I'm asking questions of the person, it should probably be assumed I'm just in broadcast-mode. lol.
    hehe, you caught me before i had a chance to edit that. sorry, it wasn't meant to indict you, and i only realized after i hit "submit" how it probably sounded. i spoke a little too rash and quickly because i was all worked up. i appreciate and completely agree with your points, they're important. it was a well-worded and informative broadcast.

  10. #640
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I think too it's important to remember, again, that these are simply preferences. It doesn't mean the Fi-user isn't going to care for external harmony or be attuned to and place importance on interpersonal dynamics, nor that the Fe-user isn't going to value and see a lot of importance in inner awareness. As in all things I think finding some semblance of a balance is best; but, I'm also aware that there's the camp who doesn't really see as much value in that, and instead believe that focusing on ones preferences/strengths is of most value.

    I also think again this is where it's easy to want to fall into the trap of making mbti really black-and-white. I mean, the nature of it is such that it is a means of describing and highlighting differences - obviously we each have preferences. BUT, I also believe there's a spectrum within all that gets lost in these sorts of discussions -- so some will perhaps be extreme Fi or Fe, with little of the opposite, others will fall somewhere in between. I think it's this spectrum that is what creates so much disagreement in threads, as well as why some Fi users don't relate to certain 'Fi things' and some Fe users don't relate to certain 'Fe things' (because respectively, both have decent access to the other 'F' function).

    And of course the ongoing issue that'll never really go away in any sort of mbti discussion - the fact that we each have different ideas of what constitutes Fi vs. Fe (or any of the other 6 functions), and more problematically, that we assign certain behaviors to certain functions.
    As usual cas, I always appreciate your posts since you espouse balance. Like a jig saw puzzle, all the Fi pieces can be unique and true to who they are while still contributing to the big Fe picture we call society. Is any butterfly losing its individuality to be a part of the overall picture? My comments are to you as well as, 'broadcast mode.'



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