User Tag List

First 848565758596068 Last

Results 571 to 580 of 938

  1. #571
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    INFJ
    Enneagram
    1w2 so/sx
    Posts
    11,088

    Default

    I don't know. It's not that I wouldn't relate anything personal at all to strangers that I connect with. If I know for sure that I'll never see them again, it sometimes is even helpful to discuss some things, knowing that it really doesn't matter. I also would relate a lot of information that many other people might consider personal, but it's all stuff that I've worked through and am quite comfortable with. That kind of stuff may make some people feel like we've had a moment, when in fact I'd feel equally comfortable saying it to almost anyone. If it's a deep part of who I am, sensitive information (either my own or others' close to me), or it gives the person power to affect me that they could misuse, then those are the kinds of things I don't share.

  2. #572
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    4,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    I guess in a way, to me, Fi is about intimately connecting in the moment. [....]
    But that expectation isn't there from the beginning. And neither is the expectation of maintenance. It's just sharing a really intense experience and gaining a new way of looking at things..It's enriching to both parties, but not binding in any way.
    I can relate to this a lot, and my Fi is my weakest function. Maybe I'm utilizing Fi when I do it, but, I just think it's my curious nature to optimize a moment [I don't have a good concept of linear time, and am thus, very "in the moment"]. And, it's not limited to only people (humans).

    I think I actually utilize Ne-Ti-Fe to allow for such a moment to take place.

    It's a drive to understand through connecting.

  3. #573
    i love skylights's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 so/sx
    Socionics
    EII Ne
    Posts
    7,835

    Default

    *** i deleted a bunch here. sorry, it was just too... well, not Fi and Fe. i don't know. i feel like i'm - and maybe we're all - easily slipping in and out of Fi and not Fi, Fe and not Fi, F and T, and functions and something totally different...

    i dunno. need to think more, talk less. sit back and listen a little bit more. thanks for all the comments to my posts though, i'm definitely reading and thinking about them even if i don't respond.


    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Oh and skylights, that was a great post. Lots of stuff to go back over and answer. I will do it sometime today, but am teaching for the evening. I don't want to lose any of those thoughts though! In answer to the one thing - no, it's not that I think I'm deep and complex or that others can't handle me. I just think that Fe honesty and Fi honesty are different. I don't want to go around hurting someone with my Fe honesty, yet I am unlikely to feel truly close to someone unless I can be 100% me, even at my most unvarnished, frustrated or harsh. I don't exercise that on people close to me often, but of the maybe 4 people or so I've ever done that with, getting through that successfully is what allowed them into the very most inner chambers of my heart.
    thanks fidelia, that makes sense. i know my language was emotional there but i wanted to leave it so you could understand how upsetting it feels through my experience. i see what you mean... though at the same time, i think that if you reassure Fi in the right places, you can say a lot of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Here is where I really want to make an awful crack about someone being all "so-dom"-y.... but I won't.


    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    No, it's not just you. The comparison of Fi connections to one night stands isn't quite ringing true to me, either.
    yeahh i get the metaphor but it's a little less... i dunno. intimidating to me. one night stands pull up all sorts of "we're drunk, let's fuck!" associations in my mind, not to mention hangover and regret. that never happens when i spontaneously bond with someone. it's just deeply pleasant and comforting.

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    Satine, if I (God forbid) were to ever find myself crying in public, the last thing that would ease my pain would be someone I didn't know well hugging me. I'd be embarrassed enough to be crying in the first place, let alone in front of people I didn't know. How do you distinguish? Because quite honestly, I could see myself tearing a strip off someone if they did that right then (well, at least the INFJ version of tearing a strip off).
    there's kind of a knowing about it. it's very N. but i will always err on the side of not infringing upon someone, if i'm not sure. sometimes if it's a really awkward situation, like suddenly i'm alone in a room with a stranger who's just burst out crying, i'll just ask them if they'd prefer some time alone or if they would like me to stay... i don't want to just leave them without saying anything because i know that can feel like utter abandonment. anyway, i've actually had it happen to me quite a few times at college and i've gotten varying responses to my question from a very composed "sorry, i just need a few minutes" to an angry "just go" to nothing (to which i just said hey well i'll be outside if you want someone to talk to, she later did come talk to me) to some chick throwing herself on me in a bear hug. though if anyone has better ideas for how i could word that, i would love to know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    This is one issue I have with Fi-users. For me, there's a selfish tinge to this, although it may appear, emphathetic.

    "Be emotionally okay because that will make my emotional state okay."

    It's a nice sentiment, but, it undermines the depth and complexity of my feeling when it seems like the worry is no longer about me working through those emotions for myself, but, working through my emotions for US BOTH. Especially when I'm feeling such raw emotions, the last thing I need is another worry added on top of that, which is managing how the Fi-user feels as well.
    well, it's not a nice sentiment, really... i was just trying to be straightforward. at the same time, i can't see how Fe users can claim that Fi users should be more responsible for their external behavior, when you're voicing that you don't want to be responsible for what you're putting into the atmosphere either. i understand that you may not pay attention to emotional cues from others, but that doesn't mean they're intangible, and it shouldn't free anyone of responsibility any more than me not paying a ton of attention to how my actions affect others despite intention frees me from them. after all, it technically is selfish to desire others to mediate their actions, too, because you don't personally like the impact. at a very base level, i think people want harmony/connection/etc both because it helps others and because it helps themself.

    to look at what Tallulah expressed for a second -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tallulah View Post
    I don't think it bothers Fe users to be vented at, because we need to vent. But knowing the difference now, I will be careful not to vent willy-nilly with an Fi user, knowing it might make them feel like they've had a lot of negative energy dumped on them. That's a distinction I wouldn't have known to make.
    well, and i don't actually mind being vented at either. i really don't need anyone to manage my feelings for me... i can handle really strong feelings... i'm around them all the time, after all. it's not the emotion that gets me, it's the discrepancy. i can handle someone yelling, crying, throwing things. i get that... but when they're talking curtly to me and giving me cold looks and yet saying "there's no emotion going on here," that is just as unfair as me intending well but accidentally hurting another through my actions.

    I want to be able to have my emotions just be about ME [and NO ONE ELSE], without the other option being to keep the emotions to myself to achieve said state. It's restrictive to self-expression.
    i understand that feeling, and i actually hesitate in the same way with my own mom, and she's ESFJ. she'll feel so bad about things i tell her sometimes, because she knows i was hurting. i don't think it's likely for an F in general to hear about pain and then not respond with their own pain on some level. but how can you say "i want my emotions to only be about me" but then also say "i want to communicate my emotions (but still keep them only about me)"? communication is sharing. two people. you can't keep it all about you if you're sharing... it sounds like all you're really asking is for the other person not to respond to them in an emotional way.

    though i'm not trying to say you shouldn't be able to tell someone that you had a bad experience without them getting bent out of shape. i totally agree with that. what i'm trying to say is that my response to that necessarily involves feeling the bad feelings, because then i can see from that standpoint too. it might sound selfish, but, at the risk of sounding big-headed, i think it's fairly altruistic to offer to wade through pain to try as best as i can to see a situation through someone else's eyes.

    I guess the difference is that I don't see it as "polluting" other people, as I see it as confiding in those I trust, and an expectation that they'll be able to be there for ME, without losing themselves, in the process.
    yeah. and i think if you get a mature and/or confident Fi person, it's easier to have that. part of who we are includes our ability to lose ourself in another person, which is good in some ways and bad in others. some people can do this quickly - lose yourself then come back to yourself to be able to look objectively at the other person again. but it kind of depends on what the other person wants. if they want someone on the "outside" just to listen, then moving through emotion very quickly - just touching base, really - then coming back is ideal. if they want someone on the "inside" to help them by simply being there and understanding who they are at a core level, then it's valuable to be able to lose yourself.

    Should then people keep emotional expressions to themselves, unless it's "positive emotions"? That seems highly restricting and superficial.
    and that is exactly how i always used to see, before understanding them at a deeper level, Fe demands on my behavior.

    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    And to be frank again, I *would* have expectations that things would continue on afterwards. Perhaps this is why I would be/ am quite distrustful of the more typically 'P' approach of.. ok, let's just enjoy the moment and maybe things will continue or maybe on the other hand it'll just be an intense-moment-thing and that's that.....
    i understand this perspective... i mean, i'm not really there myself, but i get your logic. and i'm going to try to be more aware of it in the future too. thanks for explaining it like that. am i right in the idea that you showed that person too much that might be a way to hurt you and then since they have no commitment to you, they might use that knowledge in a way that hurts you?

    but i also just want to point out real quick, that both Fi and Fe are selfish. they both look for certain things out of others because they benefit the self. and i don't think it's necessarily bad to be selfish. if we weren't selfish, we wouldn't be capable of being individuals. but it sounds like we have different ways of manifesting that and we end up seeing one another as stubborn and self-centered and unfair, because it's so easy to miss our own bias.

    of course they're both altruistic in ways, too.
    Last edited by skylights; 09-27-2010 at 09:32 PM. Reason: rewording, rewording, always rewording... wooooo

  4. #574
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren View Post
    I am very open-minded about a relationship that begins suddenly, much like Satine's description. But, I agree with you in that I share myself because I value the relationship and am emotionally involved with the person. But, I don't like or have expectations because in my experience I'll only suffer as a result. I don't have steps that a person has to walk. When I feel strongly about someone, I've already walked that flight of stairs. They may not have, though. I respect that, and am willing to wait to go back to the bottom of the stairs and wait for them to climb with me.
    I should clarify what I meant by the expectation bit. If I am to the point in a relationship where I am opening up and sharing of myself, I would only be doing so when I have a good sense that we both value the relationship. So I 'expect' that it is going to continue and it's not just an in-the-moment Moment that is just that and then we head our separate ways. It is one reason of many that I pace things slower, I suppose.. I just need to know and have that trust that the person is there to stay. Now of course no one can predict the future or whether eventually there will be a falling out or the relationship will end or evolve/shift, but I need to have good indication that the solidity is there -- and believe both look at the relationship in a similar light.

    So it's not that I have a bullet point list of specific expectations/behaviors out of the other, it's that I need to know they value the relationship as much as I and have the same desire to build/maintain it -- in whatever way that gets nuanced based on the connection and our two personalities combined.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  5. #575
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Enneagram
    4 so/sp
    Posts
    6,931

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights
    i understand this perspective... i mean, i'm not really there myself, but i get your logic. and i'm going to try to be more aware of it in the future too. thanks for explaining it like that. am i right in the idea that you showed that person too much that might be a way to hurt you and then since they have no commitment to you, they might use that knowledge in a way that hurts you?
    To your question - No, I don't think being worried about the other using the information to hurt me is what's on my mind. It really just boils down to the fact that my sharing and 'going vulnerable' means I'm on the road to wanting to invest in the relationship, and I believe the other is too. So if they'd then back away or walk off, I'd be hurt or embarassed (for having misread the situation) because they apparently then didn't view the nature of the relationship in the way I did.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  6. #576
    Permabanned
    Join Date
    May 2009
    MBTI
    ISFP
    Enneagram
    6w7 sx
    Socionics
    SEE Fi
    Posts
    25,301

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    i probably come off sounding very infringing on the forum, because i reveal and question so much, but IRL, i am so reserved that i thought i was an I until i actually learned function theory. i really, really hate making other people uncomfortable. i want my presence to be a positive thing for them.
    This is so, so much like me...the only time I come off as overbearing IRL, I think, is when I am under stress and in my shadow (aka NFP becomes foot-stomping baby STJ). But it's not my preferred, relaxed, or "normal" state. I thought was INFJ for a long long time, and sometimes tested INFP. I still do test as INFx more than any other type.

  7. #577
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    MBTI
    INFP
    Enneagram
    4w5
    Posts
    986

    Default

    This thread sure moves fast with so many subthreads within... And it's not like a derail of the OP, but more like it got into Grand Central Station and branched into multiple tracks
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  8. #578
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    ENFP
    Enneagram
    7w8
    Posts
    950

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by William K View Post
    This thread sure moves fast with so many subthreads within... And it's not like a derail of the OP, but more like it got into Grand Central Station and branched into multiple tracks
    I feel like I've been watching a train wreck... or maybe a better description would be "a bunch of NF's unchecked by any Ss (or even the occasional NT)."

    It takes longer for me to process these posts than it does for forum members to make 100 more.

    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  9. #579
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    MBTI
    INTJ
    Enneagram
    6w5 sx/sp
    Socionics
    ILI Ni
    Posts
    17,889

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    highlander, I find this very interesting. Can you explain this a bit more?
    We need for perception to be balanced with judgment to function effectively in the world. If you think about people you know who appear immature, they are likely to have a dominant perceiving or judging function without a well developed auxiliary. I'm generalizing but this is largely true. Think of the person who judges without adequate perception or information, or the person who perceives but does not decide what to do or to act. An INXJ without a developed auxiliary won't get out of their shell. An ENXP that doesn't develop their auxiliary won't finish things or gets easily discouraged.

    Furthermore, a failure to develop the auxiliary may cause one to reach directly to the shadow functions when they may not be appropriate for the situation at hand, or directly from the dominant to the tertiary (dominant-tertiary loop). The auxiliary seems to be the "path" to leveraging the other functions effectively.

    So, from what I can see, the auxiliary is the single most important function from a type development perspective. It is required to provide a level of balance against the dominant function and somehow facilitates productive interaction with and usage of other functions.

    That's how I understand it anyway.

    Please provide feedback on my Nohari and Johari Window by clicking here: Nohari/Johari

    Tri-type 639

  10. #580
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    8,263

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fidelia View Post
    I don't know. It's not that I wouldn't relate anything personal at all to strangers that I connect with. If I know for sure that I'll never see them again, it sometimes is even helpful to discuss some things, knowing that it really doesn't matter. I also would relate a lot of information that many other people might consider personal, but it's all stuff that I've worked through and am quite comfortable with. That kind of stuff may make some people feel like we've had a moment, when in fact I'd feel equally comfortable saying it to almost anyone. If it's a deep part of who I am, sensitive information (either my own or others' close to me), or it gives the person power to affect me that they could misuse, then those are the kinds of things I don't share.
    Sigh.. It just sounds like some people have limits that are extreme. Maybe I'm reading too much into it. It's one thing to not be totally open like an ESFP, but to promote this shelled up behavior is literally painful to hear about. It does no good for anyone but yourselves. I see nothing ideal about it. I see nothing that you're improving about the world by snubbing people. I mentioned in another thread that even Jesus himself had some pretty bad disciples (until they learned).. He kept an open mind. He had Fe. Even Martin Luther King could detect the good in others, and even invited some Chicago gang members to work with him.. the list goes on with open minded INFJs, who reached out, who mobilized people, and inspired them. Not this. edit: BTW, I know these are outlandish examples, but it's kind of part of my point. If they could do it, even a lowly INFJ could open their heart a little more. They are not THAT MUCH BETTER than other people. Like I said, it's disgusting.

Similar Threads

  1. When Fe meets Fi......
    By RedAmazoneFriendZone in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: 05-15-2016, 08:09 AM
  2. Fe vs. Fi, Disloyalty, Allegiance, Or the Lack Thereof…
    By Esoteric Wench in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 01-13-2011, 07:55 PM
  3. [NT] Fe and Fi, the NT version
    By BlahBlahNounBlah in forum The NT Rationale (ENTP, INTP, ENTJ, INTJ)
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 04-20-2010, 09:55 AM
  4. Let's end the Fe/Ti - Fi/Te wars once and for all...
    By onemoretime in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 35
    Last Post: 03-16-2010, 12:00 PM
  5. Why does Ti always go with Fe and Fi with Te?
    By sofmarhof in forum Myers-Briggs and Jungian Cognitive Functions
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 02-23-2010, 03:57 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO