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  1. #561
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    @ Q: Will respond to this, promise, but sleep first
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  2. #562
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skylights View Post
    like if i'm stuck between red and green, suddenly it becomes a decision between mom's favorite color and dad's.

    i fear making a decision that will devalue someone or something by not choosing it. and the bigger the decision, the harder it gets. and i fail to see a clear pattern of what i'm deciding based on as connected to how happy i end up with that decision. i really need to figure this out.

    do any other Fi-ers (haha, fire) ever feel that way? possibly i am crazy
    Much of this sounds like Ne. You're making some random connection to the issue at hand and ascribing value to it based on that unrelated issue. Instead of relating things to something else external, Fi-doms may relate it to their inner ideal, so the reason for putting off a decision involves more of being able to reach that ideal or not - that's what authenticity is implying, staying true to the inner image of the ideal.

    I notice a lot in this thread people attributing too much to Fe/Fi, which are just one function that makes up an entire mindset. I especially notice that when Fe/Fe is in the aux position, the Fi/Fe user will confuse it with their perception in a way, because Fe/Fi is supporting their perception.

    maybe it's that i'm e3, but i seek to affect and be affected. i do not want to put anyone on a course that is not true to themselves, though. that is what i have a problem with some people, usually Fe people, doing... i think sometimes they don't think about the desires of other people and just guide them where they think those people should be going for the overall good. i'm good at helping people get where they want to go, but i want to know where they want to go first, even if it's not in harmony with the overall pattern. of course i think the person in question should try to be smooth about what they want to do, but if they want to rebel, that's kind of okay with me. sometimes things need a good shaking up so the things underneath come to the surface.
    Again, this is because you are Pe-dom and Fi is supporting your Ne. When I say Fi does not seek to be affected nor to affect, I mean it in a pure form. The further it gets from the dominant function, the less it looks like this pure form. In the aux function, it seems to motivate ENFPs to explore an ideal in reality, which can lead to them seeking to motivate others to explore their ideals. Fi-doms appear much more passive or indirect in this respect. It tends to be so subtle it is almost undetectable, or IS undetectable, especially to Fe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    Funny...maybe other Fi-users aren't going to agree with this, but...

    I guess in a way, to me, Fi is about intimately connecting in the moment. Kinda like a one-night stand with a guy you really like and trust. Just..in the moment. It's intimate, intense, and soothing..but there are no other expectations after that night. There has to be trust as there's a great deal of vulnerability that comes into play. There's just that special moment you share. And perhaps, if things went really good and you both like the idea of it, you could make it a more regular thing. And from there on, it could turn into the full blown thing. But that expectation isn't there from the beginning. And neither is the expectation of maintenance. It's just sharing a really intense experience and gaining a new way of looking at things..It's enriching to both parties, but not binding in any way.
    While this metaphor makes my skin crawl, if you are referring to the ability to empathize in the moment genuinely with a person, and then walk away virtually unaffected, then yes, I relate to it. I think this is where you see people attaching themselves to the NFP and the NFP is confused & doesn't return the attachment. For the NFP, it was not about connecting to that person, well, personally, so much as fulfilling an ideal. That person represented an ideal, and to dismiss them would be almost immoral in a way.

    I don't know if it is because I am an sp/sx in the enneagram, but I find it easy to briefly connect one-on-one with someone in that INFP "healer mode" and then quickly detach to maintain my own internal equilibrium. I find it easy enough to detach that I am a lot less affected by emotional vibes than many FPs seem to claim. I can tune it out and be oblivious if I feel like it. I see ENFPs giving the wrong impression of a deeper interest in someone more than I do, but then they also come off MUCH warmer in general.

    This goes back to my assertion that Fi in itself seeks neither to affect or be affected. As a Fi-dom, I pretty much just want to be left alone, unless that person manages to hit on a feeling and arouses some sympathy, passion or response that lets my guard down a bit. Then I feel compelled almost beyond my own will, but rarely am I affected beyond being able to return to my previous state or affected in a permanent manner. When someone affects me beyond a moment, it really shakes my internal world up and my perspective of the external world. That sort of effect is extremely rare for someone to achieve in me. I tend to have these responses in relation to something a close family member/friend has said/done or indirectly through some form of art (ie. music, literature, painting).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post

    I'm asking you, Fi-doms/aux, to consider an issue that Fi may present:

    Fi wanting people to be so "open and real" doesn't mean that that's what it therefore achieves. I.e., it may force the hand where what it wants, and what it achieves, are not in sync.

    People can shy away from that outright pressure of Fi WANTING [almost bulldozing in its need] for "openness and realness".
    I don't think Fi bulldozes anyone. INFPs are the least bulldozer-like people I can think of, which is why I can't buy into the suggestion that I am one...I'm simply not passive enough. If anything is bulldozing anyone it's the combination with Ne or Te or Se (most likely Te and Se are the culprits) so I'm thinking that Fi aux would be more guilty of this.

  4. #564
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I don't think Fi bulldozes anyone. INFPs are the least bulldozer-like people I can think of, which is why I can't buy into the suggestion that I am one...I'm simply not passive enough. If anything is bulldozing anyone it's the combination with Ne or Te or Se (most likely Te and Se are the culprits) so I'm thinking that Fi aux would be more guilty of this.
    Everyone can bulldoze, just in different ways. Bulldoze, therefore I was meaning, coming on too strong. I'm speaking to something specific here, not whether INFPs are generally the bulldozer or passive personality type.

    Cross an Fi-based value of an INFP and you are asking for wrath to be brought upon you. There's nothing passive about them, then.

  5. #565
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    I really like what Satine said. I actually really treasure those unexpected moments of going to an unplumbed depth with someone fairly new to me. It's not something I can do with just anyone- it is kind of a "planets aligning" thing. I had that experience most recently just this past weekend. A dear friend invited me and three other of her closest friends to have a bonfire and do some ghei exercise with writing down things we want to let go on beautiful paper and burning them in the fire. I only knew my friend, not her other friends. I ended up bonding pretty deeply in the moment with one of her other friends. It's never expected- we just mind melded pretty spontaneously. But I don't expect to ever see again, outside of other social events with our mutual friend. Now that Satine has described it I realize that I do this pretty often and then just never see those people again, and that's okay.
    This, I get. (One night stands and hugging people in the street, not so much - my mental barriers are far more permeable than my physical ones).
    Some of the most precious moments of my life have been these kind of random connections with near strangers. People I've met whilst travelling and with whom I've established instant rapport and deep understanding, then never seeing them again. It's all the more precious because it's fleeting and totally of the moment and never sullied by banal familiarity.
    This idea of proceeding through various steps and stages towards intimacy? Like a checklist? Ugh. How stifling. How Victorian. Why would anyone impose that on themselves willingly?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #566
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    This, I get. (One night stands and hugging people in the street, not so much - my mental barriers are far more permeable than my physical ones).
    I love this. One of the best one liners (OK, technically a two-liner, but you know what I mean) that I've read on this forum.

    I'm completely the same way.

    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  7. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    haha.. yeah, I reacted similarly.

    I think this is where my pragmatism in relationships comes out.... I'll be frank, I tend not to see the *point* of an in-the-moment intensity/sharing thing. And I'm not that interested. For me, I'm about building, maintaining, and investing in longterm relationships - relationships that I believe can last. Also, for me to want to share deeply with someone and be really open/vulnerable, or whatever, it means I'm already to a point where I want them in my life for the long run - I share *because* I value the relationship and am already emotionally or relationally involved with them, and therefore want to get closer, and hope for that to continue and intend on my end to invest in it. I am sort of an all or nothing person when it comes to relationships. And to be frank again, I *would* have expectations that things would continue on afterwards. Perhaps this is why I would be/ am quite distrustful of the more typically 'P' approach of.. ok, let's just enjoy the moment and maybe things will continue or maybe on the other hand it'll just be an intense-moment-thing and that's that.....

    Basically I don't approach relationships/connections in any way remotely resembling what Satine describes.
    I am very open-minded about a relationship that begins suddenly, much like Satine's description. But, I agree with you in that I share myself because I value the relationship and am emotionally involved with the person. But, I don't like or have expectations because in my experience I'll only suffer as a result. I don't have steps that a person has to walk. When I feel strongly about someone, I've already walked that flight of stairs. They may not have, though. I respect that, and am willing to go back to the bottom of the stairs and wait for them to climb with me.
    Last edited by Lauren; 09-28-2010 at 08:28 AM.

  8. #568
    Senior Member cafe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    This, I get. (One night stands and hugging people in the street, not so much - my mental barriers are far more permeable than my physical ones).
    Some of the most precious moments of my life have been these kind of random connections with near strangers. People I've met whilst travelling and with whom I've established instant rapport and deep understanding, then never seeing them again. It's all the more precious because it's fleeting and totally of the moment and never sullied by banal familiarity.
    This idea of proceeding through various steps and stages towards intimacy? Like a checklist? Ugh. How stifling. How Victorian. Why would anyone impose that on themselves willingly?
    The same reason I don't hand out copies of my birth certificate, my bank info/PIN, SSN, home address, times I plan on being away from home, and where I hide a spare house key.
    “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.”
    ~ John Rogers

  9. #569
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Yeah, I see it more like that than putting people through a series of steps. I want to see how they act in various situations, whether they are trustworthy, how they treat others and what they do with information before I'm going to choose to connect with them in that way.

  10. #570
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Maybe I'm not INFJ after all. While there are plenty of areas where I feel ambivalent about revealing to friends, etc., I don't equivocate it to giving out my SS number. And I sure don't snub strangers.. Sometimes I notice a beautiful coincidence, spark up at something they said, and feel like relating something personal.

    Secondly, I can defend myself. I'm not so afraid of life that I have build up some gigantic tower of trustworthiness just to get anywhere with people. I'm disgusted at this! That and the "doorslamming" thing too.

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