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  1. #461
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    "We?"

    I've known Fi and Fe people who can make commitments without understanding the other side implicitly because they are committed to the relationship regardless. Maybe you have not seen it, but I have. So I'm going to have to say that any sort of blanket-statement inferring that all Fe OR Fi can be labeled like this is a statement that I think experiential knowledge has dismissed.

    I do prefer to actually understand people, though, if I get a choice, and in terms of a strongly felt relationship? It ain't gonna happen unless I do. I'll maintain ties, but they aren't going to be my best friends and confidantes.

    But that is just me, and I'm not going to speak for an entire sector of personality type.
    You don't have to understand someone to love them. It's what's sort of beautiful about the whole thing.

  2. #462
    Seriously Delirious Udog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I find it strange accusation that Fi people insist that other people feel a certain way and ascribe emotion where there is none. I've heard that on these boards before, but frankly, never in my real life. In my life, I find myself on the other end - the one having emotion projected onto them, the one having people insist I must feel a certain way when I do not. Like many introverts, I tend to fall into moments of thoughtful repose where I have a "neutral" face and people will assume I must be upset or angry or unfriendly or whatever....I used to think it was Es, especially SFJs, doing this to me.

    I now wonder if this is a perceiving issue and little to do with Fe/Fi.
    Projection is a human quality, not a cognitive function quality IMO. We fail when we try to say "xNFPs project", and succeed when we discuss "How xNFPs might project".

    For example, I find that NFPs are more prone to project emotions/motivations that don't exist, while NFJs are more prone to project needs/intentions that don't exist.

  3. #463
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    I agree with that ^^

  4. #464
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    Projection is a human quality, not a cognitive function quality IMO. We fail when we try to say "xNFPs project", and succeed when we discuss "How xNFPs might project".

    For example, I find that NFPs are more prone to project emotions/motivations that don't exist, while NFJs are more prone to project needs/intentions that don't exist.
    Again though, I think this is more of a perceiving issue. The more limited a person's perception, the more likely they are to jump to conclusions because they cannot see the alternatives. An INFP with adequate Ne is not that likely to project, IMO. The fault would lie in their perception, not their Fi, which can only work with the info Ne brings in.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #465
    Iron Maiden fidelia's Avatar
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    Similarly, an INFJ could use their Ni to come up with other possibilities. Hmm, I'm not sure what to think about it. I do notice that there are distinct trends (as Udog said) about what the two varieties tend to get wrong.

  6. #466
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan Le Fay View Post
    You think it's arrogant that a Fi-dom insists they know your emotional state when you don't
    No, I think it's arrogant that a Fi-dom insists they know my emotional state when I do know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Satine View Post
    @Mac: there are at least 4 reasons an Fi-user's reading can be off (personal emotional instability, not having enough back info, laziness aka not doing your research before jumping to conclusions, inexperience, ...)

    However. Chances are that, unless they're full blown emotionally unstable, they are on to something. They might not be accurate when they guess as to what it is, but there's something there. It's like ignoring that whining puppy they were talking about before. Me, I always compared it to a frigging bell going off, which I cannot ignore, and the other person doesn't seem to hear. All I want from you is to acknowledge the fact that there *is* in fact a bell. If you're going to insist that there is no bell and I must be insane, I'm going to go mental. For real. Then I'll start wondering what possible reasons you could have for lying to me, hiding the truth for me and why that bell is going off at all. And that's where you get inaccurate. Since there is no way for me to get more information on the bell, I'm going to have to resort to Ne to consider which options are all available, and there will be some crazy ones in there!

    Also, when dealing with a rather inexperienced Fi-user, or one that's off their game for some reason, they might mistake certain emotions that have a similar vibe for another. For instance, momentary frustration can look like full blown rage, especially in a debate (like Tallullah talked about). Unfortunately, as Ti-users tend to *like* precision, they refuse the explanation or indication the Fi-user is given as being correct or truthful, and meanwhile imho, tossing the baby out there with the bathwater. Ok, maybe it's not full blown rage, but there *is* something there...plz plz plz take a moment and either explain to us why it's irrelevant/not important/should keep ringing/be ignored or is otherwise covered already and a non-issue, or turn it off coz it is driving me crazy :steam: (honestly, let's see you ignore a frigging smoke-alarm going off right next to you and keep drinking tea as if nothing's going on *pouts*)

    You can see why at this point you won't get an appology from the Fi-user. You're demanding them to say out loud that there *is* no bell and appologize for even suggesting you are hiding a bell from them. Ironically, *that* would be lying. And most Fi-users are kinda truth-oriented, especially on these things.Dropping it is hard, as that bell is still going. Plz turn it off. Plz, or let us at least help you turn it off. We're worried about you

    /rant
    Okay, thank you, that helps. Is there anything that really helps to convince you that there's no need for the alarm, we can go ahead and hit the snooze button?

  7. #467
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I find it strange accusation that Fi people insist that other people feel a certain way and ascribe emotion where there is none. I've heard that on these boards before, but frankly, never in my real life. In my life, I find myself on the other end - the one having emotion projected onto them, the one having people insist I must feel a certain way when I do not. Like many introverts, I tend to fall into moments of thoughtful repose where I have a "neutral" face and people will assume I must be upset or angry or unfriendly or whatever....I used to think it was Es, especially SFJs, doing this to me.

    I now wonder if this is a perceiving issue and little to do with Fe/Fi.

    I wonder how this all really goes down. Do Fi users really go around telling people what they're feeling? I'm thinking about this. I'm really trying to think of a time where I just marched up and told someone they were feeling a certain way and best not argue with me. I honestly can't think of one.

    I can, however, think of many, many times when I TOOK THINGS PERSONALLY that I shouldn't have i.e. mistaking someone's neutral behavior for anger or dislike or whatever. It's generally when I like or love that person and desire their approval and/or love. It's created out of my own sense of insecurity, fears, etc. not any arrogant assumption that I know what others are feeling.

    I do, however, sometimes pick up on things intuitively...little things, odd things...but I can't say that I've ever been beligerent about telling another person how they feel.

    Well, wait - I remember getting in arguments with my ex when he would be irrationally angry, like out of his mind in a rage, and I would say things like, "but you love me!" because I knew he did, and I don't know if I said it in an attempt to make him stop acting crazy or to make myself not hate him for being angry...but that's something else entirely, a somewhat dysfunctional relationship...

  8. #468
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    Sorry, I was "constipated and slightly peckish" above. Thankfully there was some bizzaro ISFJ-INFP hybrid on the case so there is hope for me yet.

  9. #469
    Uniqueorn William K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Udog View Post
    For example, I find that NFPs are more prone to project emotions/motivations that don't exist, while NFJs are more prone to project needs/intentions that don't exist.
    I think this goes back to the "ends and means". When someone is venting, I'm interested in knowing "What is causing the venting?" (i.e the motivation) and less in "What are you trying to achieve with your venting?" (i.e the intention)
    4w5, Fi>Ne>Ti>Si>Ni>Fe>Te>Se, sp > so > sx

    appreciates being appreciated, conflicted over conflicts, afraid of being afraid, bad at being bad, predictably unpredictable, consistently inconsistent, remarkably unremarkable...

    I may not agree with what you are feeling, but I will defend to death your right to have a good cry over it

    The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

  10. #470
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marmalade.sunrise View Post
    I can, however, think of many, many times when I TOOK THINGS PERSONALLY that I shouldn't have i.e. mistaking someone's neutral behavior for anger or dislike or whatever. It's generally when I like or love that person and desire their approval and/or love. It's created out of my own sense of insecurity, fears, etc. not any arrogant assumption that I know what others are feeling.
    I agree with this.....it's a focus on my OWN feeling, in which case, I am seeking to validate my feeling, not insist that they had certain motivations.

    If you (in general) say, "I did not mean to offend you. I do not feel the negative emotions you suggest I feel", then that does not change the fact that what you said hit on Fi's feeling value, or it was taken "personally". It's really not about YOU and what you meant as an individual. Your attitude may seem non-offensive to you, because its intent/motive/whatever is within standard Fe protocol or accepted sentiments, but that in itself could be what is hitting on a Fi value. It's like Fi realizing this external standard is BS, and your "blunder" just highlighted why and how. Once again, you are just a symbol of a larger violation. So you may think the Fi person is insisting you feel a certain way - when they are simply insisting that their own feeling is valid. Again, part of the problem lies in Fe not recognizing the real violation, which is often not obvious on the surface and/or because Fe doesn't even register the issue on its scale.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

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