When I go to bed thinking about the conversation and wake up early still thinking about it, I've been online too much. I have such a strong desire to be understood that it appears to overpower my desire to understand in this thread.
I do want to say that what's been shared about Fe is appreciated. My appreciation usually comes in the form of statements, like this one. What I'm getting back from Fe users is that if I don't ask questions, Fe may feel I haven't been appreciating or paying attention either. If that's right, I will try to ask more questions (as they are relevant to the conversation.) So if Fe asks a lot of questions, Fe is trying to pin down the specific answers of what to do in situation X or situation Y. It doesn't necessarily mean they haven't heard what's been said.
From this thread, I think I understand better about Fe warning signs in writing, although honestly they don't stand out to me. I can see an Fi tripwire a mile off. Not so much an Fe one. IRL I am private anyway, so that helps prevent tripping over them, since I can't trip over one if I keep my thoughts to myself. And I get all the other signals too to warn me ... using the "spidey sense" as an early warning system!
Until I was hit on the head with the whole "Active Listening" stuff, I didn't know I was walking in the minefield. Maybe someone then could help me? By saying it plain like Tallulah? Without attaching a value judgement to it? Value statements hurt my feelings because my intentions are in earnest, and it's painful to be misconstrued. (In the span of a few posts, I was told I was being dismissive, pretentious, condescending and patronizing, to name a few.) It's an attack on my character, which is essentially an attack on Fi, and Fi is what we're talking about. I don't feel safe when one assigns a negative intention to me from out of the blue. I can't stay as objective, I run through all the posts, looking for the wrong words I said. I feel like running away. I feel under attack. I feel afraid.
Fe is, after all, what we culturally see and interact with every day. Sometimes here on the forum, I want to "let my hair down" and just express a question in a natural way for me. But it's naive of me to think that interacting on the forum is different than the real world. In the real world, I protect my innermost thoughts and feelings; I don't open this part of me to just anyone. This is a place most Fi users keep locked up and secret.
So when I offer to "take someone's hand", it's just an invitation to get to know me better, which means I will show that person more and more of my Fi, and when they start to understand my Fi more and more, they will better identify more and more Fi patterns IRL, and recognize them when encountered. No one Fi user will be exactly like me, but there will be enough similarity to say "aha!" And it won't seem so mysterious anymore.
I'm simply offering to take someone into my world. My world is made of Fi values. See how they are intertwined?
My Fe takeaways:
1.) Tilty's post up there was refreshing and clear. That is the kind of honesty I am looking for. That's real to me.
When I hear tilty say the same Fe trust rules apply to everyone, and that it seems crazy to just start from a default position of trust, that anyone has to work or earn their way into the inner circle, that's helpful to know. It's not necessarily personal to feel mistrusted.
2.) That when Fe users jump in to share opinions all in a big pile, it's to verify what each other is seeing. Poster A: "Those pants are blue". Poster B: "Yes, they are"! Poster C: "Oh yes, that seems right to me." This does have the effect of feeling ganged up on, but, I can appreciate that's not necessarily the intent. One can more effectively validate what is agreed upon. It helps when other Fe users see what they think they see too.
3.) I will reflect on the "Fe Rules to smooth things over":
I have to be honest: It is a little ironic when most Fe users responded negatively to Wonka's thread about how to treat "Upset ENFP's". If Fe users are loathe to give Fi users what they need, do Fe users have the right to ask for anything back?1) Identify the place where things took a turn for the worse.
2) Back up and re-evaluate either phrasing or WHAT was said. That's not to say that you aren't entitled to certain feelings, but sometimes forcing someone to accept something that they find offensive and then telling them they're wrong if they don't like it just won't go over well.
3) Address the objections offered as authentically as you can while still remaining true to yourself.
4) Move on, taking the red flags given as an indication to take a different route where there are less landmines. Do not try to offer the same thing again in the same manner if it has already been rejected.
But I will try. But please, I have trouble knowing where #1 is located sometimes. So if I ask, will someone just say it plainly?
4.) I know it probably breaks all the collective Fe hearts to hear that Fi users walk gingerly around Fe users, as though on broken glass or eggshells, but it's true. Most of us are so concerned with offending Fe users that we try nearly anything to prevent conflict or misunderstandings. No one wants to get shut out or door-slammed.
If we try to Fe-speak, it falls off somewhere because Fe is not our first language. If we Fi-speak, we get value judgements applied over top of our expressed emotions.
I list this as a take-away because I have no answer. If anyone does, they'll be the super-genius of the world. I'll try to reflect on it too.
5.) Fe users generally feel emotions are not to be trusted or relied upon in the moment. Correct me on that if I've got it wrong.
That's the best I can do to sum up the last day or so. Any other thoughts are welcomed. If another person can summarize like Tallulah too in any other areas it would be most helpful.